Indyref 12 - keeping the ball rolling

[flippinada]

Hope everyone doesn't mind, I'm to keep the discussion going. As you were folks :)

chelsy

My DS has Facebook, he says there is a lot of pure spite on there.

Another one that I had to laugh at though, a very well off and highly educated person "feels the warm breath of freedom on his brow"

He's from Perth.

huge swathes of international law will be re-written

Ah yes, of course, silly us. Two million (?) or less (?) Scots (whatever half the electorate is and given that only about half of them seem to be in favour of independence) make a mark on a ballet paper because Salmond promises them, if they do - they will find themselves living in an oil rich socialist paradise - and the rest of the world are going to rewrite international law to accommodate them?

I don't envy you OOAOML. How do you even begin to argue with that?

'Anyone who's interested, Google Brian Soutar and Clause 28. Lots of info out there.

And yet, despite this man being a major supporter of the yes campaign LGBT campaigners are throwing their weight behind yes.'

Yes! That's the example I've been giving to people who say 'if you support No, you're aligning yourself with the BNP and Orange Order. Most Yes people aren't homophobes and most No supporters aren't bigots.

littledrummergirl more information on the ECHR. Its judgments are currently enforced on signatories by the European Commission and by the Council of Europe. These international bodies would not obviously be enforcing a "Scottish version" of the ECHR.

Membership of the ECHR is also a pre-requisite for joining the EU. I am cynical and wonder if the White Paper's stated intention not to adopt the ECHR until it can become a signatory, but to have a "Scottish version" is a way of enabling an independent Scottish state to do things which are currently incompatible with the ECHR.

OOAOML So, basically, he's just swallowed AS bullshit hook line and sinker :( Would you normally class him as averagely intelligent? Would you say he's been swayed by the job he is in or his workmates? Or has he always been anti - english or WM? (I'm just trying to work out 'who' the 'average' yes voter is. Feel free not to reply :))

Thats what I thought. Thanks Chelsy.
Hell of risk to take then. So many rights people take for granted could be signed away in a blink of an eye.

If I was a farmer in Scotland I would be very nervous about this.

Trouble is littledrummergirl so many people in Scotland should be 'very nervous' about this, but they are falling for AS's bullshit hook, line & sinker and don't seem to be listening to common sense - instead declaring it to be 'scaremongering'.

Is there any more televised debates on before Thursday?

Dennis Skinner talking to ex mining communities was picketed by Yes supporters calling him a Red Tory...

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. He's my local MP and I've had the pleasure of having a debate with him. If he's a Tory then Maggie T was the leader of Socialist Worker.

Just goes to show you how bizarre the yes campaigners have got.

Mind wild - it's actually potentially worse than your surmise.
I wish I could tell you my story - it would make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up, honestly. I am still trying to get justice through the appropriate channels but the stonewalling is astonishing. This is the type of legislation being used to cover up a complete lack of professional competence.

Yes, I agree that the State guardian proposal seems to be a clear breach of Art. 8 of the ECHR to the right to a private family life, free from state control. It is being challenged in court, but in the event of a Yes vote, an independent Scotland would accede from the rest of the UK and therefore the ECHR before any judgment could be enforced.

The state guardian scheme is hardly the only Scottish legislation to trouble the ECHR watchers. The legislation to remove various property related matters from the very effective small claims procedure to mysterious "First Instance tribunals" - how does that guarantee the human right to a public and impartial hearing under Art. 6? There is thereafter an appeal to the court, but local courts have been closed by the SNP Government, so that seems less likely too. And of course Legal Aid has been cut, so its almost impossible to take a case to the ECHR, or to get a meaningful response to a FOI request to assist in finding evidence for it, as much of it comes back scored out for "economic reasons benefitting a public authority" and the ombudsman is toothless and disinterested.

A lot of legislation already passed relating to rental properties probably breaches Art. 8 already. Possibly a public interest defence could be argued. e.g. with the tenancy deposit scheme - disputes with tenants should be handled by properly legally qualified judges in courts, not by some self appointed individual running a business. But how could you possibly point that out in the political atmosphere that exists in Scotland?

I'd love to have seen Skinner's face when he was heckled for being a Red Tory!

I am jealous of you niceguy.

WildThong

Quite a mild FB one this morning but it disgusted me the more I thought about it. This from a nurse - sharing of the picture of the stained M&S underpants, with a claim that they were Cameron's. And then I thought about the patients with similar symptoms she might be dealing with in her job, and it seems to be me she is mocking them. It was horrible - how low will people sink?

latte yes! he's intelligent. Armchair anti-establishment if you see what I mean. His friends seem pretty half and half, apparently his work don't talk about it much (public sector). He isn't remotely anti-English.

That's beyond low

That is appalling.

To lighten the mood, the demonstration outside the BBC HQ against Nick Robinson (for daring to ask Alex Salmond a question included one kid waving a placard saying 'my Dad made me come' and another saying 'down with Cbeebies'. I don't think they were taking it entirely seriously...

Those kids probably have more intelligence that most of the rabble that were there

Each area will have their own counts and will declare the outcome from their votes, but the result is just a straight majority across the country.

OOAOML I'm still baffled by the thinking of some. I'm finding it very hard to put 'intelligent' and 'voting for yes' together tbh. I hope 'prettybird' is back later, she's no dunce but is voting 'yes' - I'm fascinated to find out WHY she still thinks it's a good idea. (Not meaning to single her out, but she's the only 'intelligent' 'yes' voter - quite possibly an oxymoron - that I can think of (there are plenty of non intelligent ones) - I hope some others come out of the woodwork).

I don't 'do' facebook and every single day I am happier with that decision.

Those kids (and others) are learning first hand new lessons about how it's acceptable to behave. Those lessons may not be beneficial in some cases and that concerns me.

Back to a currency question...
Just watching NS on BBC stating iScotland will use the pound "they can't stop us using it" and wanting a 'Currency Partnership' with rUK.
She says that rUK will back a currency partnership with Scotland as it will be best for rUK too - otherwise it will cost rUK businesses £500m a year to change currency to trade with Scotland.
But surely if iScotland is going to use the pound anyway why would rUK businesses have to change currency? I imagine there may be import duties but why currency exchange costs? What am I missing?

In the Guardian - money already being moved out of Scotland. Confirms what some people have been saying on this and other threads:

“Eyebrow-raising” numbers of Scottish businesses are moving their money across the border and into English bank accounts, according to the Cumbria Chamber of Commerce.

Rob Johnson, the chief executive, said he knew of significant numbers of firms transferring funds from banks registered in Scotland to those headquartered in England. “We know it’s happening, but we can’t give names,” he said on Monday.

“It’s inevitable that people would start to do this because uncertainty is something businesses can’t handle … It’s not about businesses being pro or against independence, it’s businesses saying: ‘There are some real issues here and we don’t know what’s happening.’”

He said he would not reveal the volume of money transfers but said he had heard of “enough to raise an eyebrow” in the past two weeks and that the net losers were banks known to be registered in Scotland. “It’s as if everybody has suddenly woken up,” he said.