Indyref 12 - keeping the ball rolling

[flippinada]

Hope everyone doesn't mind, I'm to keep the discussion going. As you were folks :)

mindreader I had heard a little about that on another thread, but only in so much as 'Who is their 'State Guardian' (and people then saying that's only in Scotland). That's one fucked up system - how in god's name did that get through?? If they think that appointing State Guardians is 'OK' what else are they going to think is 'OK' to do????????

Abra1d I don't suppose you have a video link of BG last night do you? I have been looking for one, but can't find anything. I would have gone up to TS last night but I didn't find out about it until it was too late to get there.

Job creating powers for Scotland? - being part of a stronger economy than in an independent Scotland - more money = more jobs.

Wild Thong - that is a fabulous quote from Adam Smith. Thanks

bardar
On this thread, Monday night about 10pm, statistically linked to the full Bob Geldof speech, sorry I don't know how to re link to it.

He spoke brilliantly, absolutely nailed it for me.

Mindreader Yes, home educators are very worried that head teachers might disagree with their choices for educating their children as well. I don't know enough about it TBH.

I feel it's one of these things that maybe is meant to be protective and just to make schools/healthcare/social etc prioritise the needs of the child, but the legislation that has been passed gives much more power to the state than it needed to. It may have just been badly written rather than sinister, but their unwillingness to listen to people to fix it is awful.

DH is concerned about such woolly ideals as children should be raised in accordance with cultural expectations - he might half-joke about whether our son will be taken away from us if we don't raise him Scottish enough... but presumably this is worrying for those who are travellers, or who have (benign) alternative lifestyles, who homeschool or are from a minority religion.

I don't know the ins and outs of it but it is worrying.

Latte - it is VERY VERY scarey.

It is a piece of legislation that - in theory - could be well used.
But the powers of it for misuse are really frightening.

I have a story to tell and after the Referendum is over I will go back to my MSP about it. It is a tale re the denial of the needs of a child with SEN (poss SN) and a huge 'covering up'. There is racism involved and the blackening of the 'name' of a family. This is the sort of legislation that can be mis-used in this scenario.

It was secretly 'rolled out' in various areas of Scotland whilst is was still being fought over in Holyrood. (I will try and find the link)

The current crew in WM are vile no doubt, but the Holyrood crew also have deep flaws.

Have a look at this cartoon, which I found on politicalbetting.com.

For anyone who didn't see it this is what Sir Bob had to say.

I thought it was bloody marvellous myself and I'm not normally the type to get taken in by rhetoric. He didn't have to get up there and say what he said, but he did and good on him for doing it.

Don't read the snidey, sarkey comments underneath - it will just get your 'dander' up to quote Sir Bob.

Latte, sadly not. I've looked on Youtube but can't see anything yet, but I'm sure something will be posted there if past similar events are anything to go on. Sorry not to be able to help.

Cedric . That link shows the disgusting efforts to stifle debate. Brian Wilson was clearly there to talk about energy. Calling him a 'sell out' is vile.

I also think MN should do another poll. How do we ask them to do that? Maybe do a smarter one next time where they can suss out any spammers.

latte mind
That sounds horrifying. What I wonder is, will the State Appointed Guardian be able to make independent decisions? I would worry that, like current social service providers, they would be pressured to take into account costs and budgets etc. Therefore, extra care required for this SEN child? Eh, no money for that, so the decision is the child will 'be supported' in mainstream school.

OH well done, Fontella.

Link to the Bill:

www.scottish.parliament.uk/S4_Bills/Children%20and%20Young%20People%20(Scotland)%20Bill/b27s4-introd.pdf

The provisions are in Part 4, Section 19 onward.

Now enshrined in law.

Thanks v much.

I get the issue now. As I hear him he knows he can't persuade a patriotic male.

There was then a lawsuit (back in the Spring) to put this on track to the European Court of Human Rights based on an argument that if it were legal it would render utterly null the ECHR Article 8 guarantee of a Private Family Life free from government invasion of privacy.

www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/christian-charity-to-sue-ministers-after-guardian-legislation-passed-1.231412

Which means the Scots government will have to spend goodness knows how much money (presumably out of the social services budget) to fight it. And then get ordered by the court to change. And then get fined when they don't change and get sued all over again; a process that will take roughly 5 years and cost goodness knows how much.

David Hume,historian and philosopher, another Unionist, (mentioned by Sir Bob);

"Public liberty, with internal peace and order, has flourished almost without interruption, trade and manufactures and agricultures have increased. The arts and sciences and philosophy have been cultivated". He did complain of the English tendency "to treat with hatred our just pretentions to surpass and govern them" fair enough.

I get the issue now. As I hear him he knows he can't persuade a patriotic male

A patriotic male with his dander up is an entirely different creature.

Basically geldof was accused of being patronising to women and telling them to use their heads when that's really not what was said. Bit like the picture doing the rounds of someone in a kkk outfit which was supposedly taken in Edinburgh at the orange March yet appears in a blog from northern Ireland in July
Or the other one doing the rounds about how the BBC didn't show true photos of buchanan street when the photo they say is the true one that was hidden has been on the BBC website since Sunday at least

If iScotland adopts Sterlingisation what would that mean on a day-to-day basis for the wo/man in the street?
Would Scots still use and spend the English pound or just use the Scottish notes? Would the Scottish pound (possibly) be considered to be worth less - should Scots be stockpiling English notes?

Abra1d thank you for looking.

Fontella thank you. It was good to actually hear it and not just read it. It's 'choke up' material for sure.

WildThong there is SO much wrong with the concept of 'State Guardians', if I were in Scotland I would kicking up all kinds of hell over it and when the Ref is over, I'll be looking in to it to see if there is anything I can do to support anyone trying to get it turned over.

They could only use the Scottish notes if they were still authorised to print them by the boe.

Radio Scotland again, sorry
Business for Scotland rep stating categorically that "of course we will have a currency union" backed up by a rather strident rep from 'women for independence'

How can they keep peddling this out and out lie?

(mindreader - thanks for the info, I will def look into after the ref x)

WildThong - Jesus wept. How can they be so dense?