Indyref 12 - keeping the ball rolling

[flippinada]

Hope everyone doesn't mind, I'm to keep the discussion going. As you were folks :)

Generally loving the debate on here - unfortunately long working hours mean I can't spend as much time as I would like

I agree re George Galloway, utterly odious although undoubtedly a brilliant orator.
He ranks beside the likes of Brian Soutar in my book. I wouldn't share a stage with either of them. This campaign has created some strange bedfellows for both sides.

SC

One of the underlying reasons I suspect for provision of universal free prescriptions being a banner SNP article of faith. It's just so visible.

lucky I think that the UK government politicians have had a genuine shock. A reality check if you like. No way would they be able to go back on what has been promised. Remember there is a general election very soon after, so the electorate will have the opportunity to hold them to account.

Yes I appreciate that. However SNP (probably) won't be here after a yes vote picking up the pieces.
I think that the yes voters know that it will be a struggle going forward, but despite that relative cushiness of being part of the uk are prepared to say actually we will decide how much will be spent in the NHS or education etc. There will have been a 7.2% cut in Scotland's budget from 2010 till 2016. That is a lot of money to lose

Why would the people of Scotland believe the WM politicians now?

I'm not sure that some of them would. However they believe Salmond's manipulations even less and they also know that the consequences of reneging on such a promise would be awful for Westminster.

They weren't heckling Galloway because he is a misogynist. They were heckling him as a "sell out". So his status is pretty irrelevant here - it was all about mob mentality shouting down a no meeting.

Good morning. Nearly there now, and I'm trying to stay engaged, although it really is feeling like the bad bit of a marathon.

Just to clarify, when I said we'd like our saltire back, I meant that I resent how it has been purloined by the Yes side, when in fact it represents the whole of the Scottish nation, so probably about 2m No voters.

Perhaps I should get a large saltire with a big 'NO' in the middle ...

But wildthong, these politicians will be very unpopular with the 60 million people in rUK so I cannot believe that now without a mandate to promise these things, they can do so. There has been no debate, it's all rhetoric, yet again.
Living in England I will be very unhappy to find myself losing critical services to allow Scotland to stay in the union. I would prefer to apply for a scottish passport. Lol.

The Spanish minister laid out the route to entry pretty clearly, and what he says seems to match what pretty much anyone who is not campaigning for independence is now saying.

I'd believe the Institute for Fiscal Studies to be accurate before I'd trust Salmond and co. They show the NHS spending in UK going up 4.4% between 2009/10 and planned 2015/16. Scottish NHS is down 1.2%. The info coming out today suggests that cuts are needed because our spending commitments are unfunded. So it looks to me like they haven't protected the NHS, they aren't protecting the NHS, and they won't be able to in the future unless they've got a magic money tree because we need to make drastic cuts to support their ill-considered currency plans.

A bit late on this, but please don't confuse people getting helipads in Elie, the Commonwealth Games or a new building for Glasgow Clyde College as signs that Scotland is actually much less deprived than rUK. If you drive up to Bearsden and Milngavie, sure you might see big SUVs and boutiques. But take a detour back through Possilpark or Ruchill and see how the trickle down effect has worked.

And the Commonwealth Games as a sign of prosperity in Glasgow! When there were deluges of closures for ASN schools? How could we afford the former and not the latter? Lots of us ordinary Glaswegians have very little use for a new velodrome or flower displays along Gibson St. If anyone saw the BBC Scotland doc (Glasgow: Games City, I think), you'll see how plenty of us felt about that expenditure.

My no vote is largely because the fine print of independence hasn't been worked out for the poorest people. And there are plenty. Please don't assume Scotland is doing much better than everyone else.

Oh well if you think that the folk in the rest of the uk are so forgiving, good on you. I hope it comes to pass but I wouldn't bank on it.

That is a lot of money to lose

Yes it would be so that would be why people need to muster in the event of a No vote to take more effective political action. Nothing will stay the same whatever the outcome and the re-engagement of non-politician Scots in the political process has to be welcomed.

Have the Yes voters looked at the figures though Lucky? If they think that that would be bad, they should review dispassionately what cash any sScotland would have after separation. That would probably give them pause for thought.

Luckytwo I'm not sure that you'll 'lose critical services' if Scotland stays in.

But if it looks like you might, then the English will no doubt demand the equivalent.

Luckytwo, to support sterlingisation we need to build up reserves by running a surplus for several years. Salmond admitted they haven't planned for that. The most recent quarterly figures (not included in the full GERS yet) show that we are currently minus £15 billion against spending of £65 billion (roughly.) And we need a surplus. And that's before expected reduction in oil revenues and in tax from the companies who will no longer be headquartered here. And the probable increase in the costs of any borrowing.

A different IFS report showed that even if the Scottish Government stuck to the cuts proposed we'd still be in a 3% deficit when the UK government broke even. That was before the announcements of departures etc which will change that balance.

My no vote is largely because the fine print of independence hasn't been worked out for the poorest people.

I think that that's right Corey.

You should, Freddie. I can see no reason why not.

My yes posters and stickers are just blue with a white yes on them. I have badges in lots of colours, though my purple one is my favourite as it goes with most of my stuff.

My bunting is saltires, but that's leftover from the mini commonwealth games we had in the garden with the kids during the summer.

TS you're right of course, I should.

But as a rule, at the moment if you see a Saltire, you immediately think, 'ah, a Yes voter' - whether that's right or wrong, it shows how it has been very effectively 'borrowed' by the Yes side.

Corey I'd totally agree with you - for me I think the point is that you also can't take big building projects in London as meaning that they're not experiencing austerity because they have huge areas of deprivation too.

I have badges in lots of colours, though my purple one is my favourite as it goes with most of my stuff.

Shame on you for letting such considerations hold sway!

luckytwo I wonder how the rest of the UK feel about the Miliband, Clegg and Cameron pledge too.

I also wonder about the value of the pledge, given that there's a general election in May.

We were in Trafalgar Square last night, too. Made us feel a little less helpless. Perhaps it takes an Irish man to tell the people of Britain that they're BT.

What I really need is a rainbow yes badge like the LGBT for Yes people have.

I think that the yes voters know that it will be a struggle going forward, but despite that relative cushiness of being part of the uk are prepared to say actually we will decide how much will be spent in the NHS or education etc. There will have been a 7.2% cut in Scotland's budget from 2010 till 2016. That is a lot of money to lose.

'A struggle.' That is the understatement of the century.

The point the 'yes' movement seem to be missing is .. what money? Groats, spondoolis, yen .. what money? You have no currency!

Hell will freeze over before any rUK politician will come within a thousand miles of any currency union? It is impossible. It's not rUK being 'difficult' it is a fiscal, political and financial impossibility. What part of 'impossible' is so difficult to understand. Scotland is absolutely 100% f*cked if someone on the Yes side doesn't doesn't wake up to this one singular fact.

Your are being lied to constantly and repeatedly by Salmond and his cohorts and yet you are blindly following him into the abyss.

I can't comprehend this level of ignorance and stupidity - and no that's not aimed at anyone here personally, but this is the level of debate I have observed all over the internet. It is jaw dropping.

Why doesn't any of this scare the hell out of anyone voting 'Yes'? How are they able to so blithely ignore it?