Indyref 11. The home of good manners

[grovel]

!0,000 and counting.

There's no stomping,demanding, huffing or puffing involved.

So Salmond won't be involved then. In that case some progress may be possible.

...no more subsidised new nuclear power stations....

(although on that one I'm torn as I'm not against nuclear power per se)

So what else do you want from me?

At negotiations we'll still be part of the UK - so what the negotiating chips be? If we don't get CU/whatever else we won't leave the UK?

Rita

There's no stomping,demanding, huffing or puffing involved.

Not on the surface perhaps because these are supposedly mature adults who will have something serious to discuss but there would certainly be no goodwill. Why would Westminster agree to anything which wasn't in their interests? Which would no longer include most Scottish concerns.

There is an argument in fact that being ultra tough in negotiations with any sScotland might be the best way for Cameron to survive in the event of a Yes vote and with European and UKIP issues looming. I'm not saying that I subscribe to that view but it's worth mentioning.

A detailed study of the SNP case reveals a serious lack of detailed planning with many issues being consigned to the future. In some instances I would forgive them for this if they had not had plenty of time to set their course on separation. I do not forgive them for creating this illusion.

An explanation of how you think an independent Scotland, given the fact of it currently being part of UK and therefore leaving UK, would be better?

Like many other posters, I've made long posts explaining my reasons for voting no. It's not an unreasonable request IMO. Apologies if I've missed your explanation. Perhaps you could link to where you did that?

As far as I am aware that could happen. Independence doesn't go through until March after a period of negotiation.

So I would assume that means that negotiations could break down to such an extent the whole thing is called off.

Someone better than me might be able to speculate on that further.

I'm not in the best place to Google argue right now, just went out to my car to find my.back window has been smashed in.

Fuckin fantastic.

I've explained several times in great details over several threads why I am voting yes. I'm not here to satisfy your demands, I laid out my reasons and my fears.

Oh lovely that's horrible.

Oh no Rita. Very sorry to hear about your back window.

I will go through the threads and look out for your reasons and fears.

That's shit Rita, a lifetime of bad luck to that twatty vandal. Any cctv cameras in the vicinity?

prettybird - I am actually 'torn' on the issue of nuclear power too. Some green campaigners think it's the least damaging form of energy available at the moment, until 'renewables' become more efficient anyway.

No it's just on my street. Surprised no one knocked my door but think with schools being of and pissing rain it's been really quiet.

I could greet.

Never had any damage, my cars a heap anyway.

Lovley sorry about your car. What an awful thing to happen.

Just been watching AS on Sky news. He really is amazingly fly. In good old MN style, he makes my teeth itch.
A) While slagging off DC for invoking supermarkets to comment re the consequences should the vote be Yes, he manages in the same sentence to compliment Asda, Tesco and United for not speaking out, somehow managing to turn their silence into support for Yes.
B) in regard to the different sets of businesses who came out for/against last week - apparently since the 'businesses for independence' mentioned the words 'society' and 'fairness' in their letter, (not how that would be achieved mind you) this means they won that argument. No mention of the well thought out and evidenced arguments presented, just the mention of the two magic words is enough to make the case,

He really does think the electorate are stupid, doesn't he?

Can I just say how much I appreciate this thread.

On both sides the debate and discussion has been (for the most part) respectful and thought provoking.

That's awful news about your car LovelyRita

Sorry to hear that lovleyRita

Yes, he really does wildthong. Probably thinks he just has to keep us believing for another few days..

Yup.

He hoped we will be fooled into thinking that oil turnover is the same as oil revenues. He claimed that AD tried to deny that Scotland would be able to use sterling as a currency.

I see on the news AS had been using Adam Smith (18th century Scottish economist and philosopher) as an example of why Scottish Independence is a good thing, because of people like him.

Adam Smith lived and worked in the UK - post union.

AS has been well schooled in throwing in the key words & phrases to switch the focus & debate to where he wants it to go. Lots of smoke & mirrors. I'd love to see a debate between the people SNP have used to brief on how to respond to critical/delving questions & those behind the BT campaign who answer every question with 'what currency will we be using' etc.

It seems to me the psychology behind each camp has been fundamentally different & I think that has been a failure in the BT camp. The relentless negativity hasn't helped as it's put too many off even engaging in the debate. The groans from people in the audiences of the televised debates I've seen, whenever the 'what currency will we use' has come up, is the same as the groans you here watching question time whenever a Tory/lib dem throwns in 'labour spent all the money' when they are being challenged on things like bedroom tax etc. It gets tired, & just makes people feel those spouting it aren't actually listening - by focussing on the 'what currency' part, it's a way to avoid the issues being raised about where people are unhappy with the status quo. So, more smoke & mirrors.

It gets quite dizzying listening to all this, doesn't it? I'll be glad when it's all over.

I can't say how pleased I am that some undecideds are perhaps lurking on this thread. I have been so impressed at the knowledge and thinking by some of my fellow no voters that I wish I knew you in real life and we could meet for a coffee and chat. Measured, intelligent, informed women.

I laugh at suggestions that Salmond's SNP is a party for equality and fairness. Nationalism is no friend of socialism, however "nicely" you dress it. We have certainly seen hints and glimpses of the true facets of nationalism in the last weeks. Bullying business? Baying at journalists? "English go home" sentiments on FB? Welcome to nationalism everyone. This is the start of it.

The SNP is a party backed by Rupert Murdoch, tax avoiders, private businessmen with millions. One of the SNP's main policies is to cut corporation tax.

A yes vote is a vote for a right wing party, just under a blue and white flag instead.

We are told as "no" voters that we are inherently pessimistic. I view it as healthy scepticism. There are times for optimism and times for pessimism. But ask what the cost of failure is before deciding which strategy to use. If the cost of failure is high, blind faith optimism is the wrong one. one of Salmond's hobbies is gambling and, given what he is doing with the future of a currently sound and relatively prosperous country, I am sad he had chosen to do that professionally. Am I the only one who wonders if he is thinking "oh shit" at night, "I only wanted devomax. this is going to be an almightly mess to sort out".

I am one of the many Scots who had become apathetic about politics. I have already rejoined the Labour Party as I believe we are only in this almightly divisive shambles due to the weak Labour leadership we have seen over the years.

I very much hope that a no vote goes through on Thursday and that future generations will benefit from the enlivened policital views awakened in Scotland.

#Proud to be Scottish. Delighted to be united.

I'm so sorry to hear that Rita. It's happened to me twice and each time just the smashing was enough to make me feel bad and depressed even though the windows were insured.

I agree that the Better Together campaign is dire.

Am I the only one who wonders if he is thinking "oh shit" at night, "I only wanted devomax. this is going to be an almightly mess to sort out".

I bet you aren't!