Indyref 11. The home of good manners

[grovel]

!0,000 and counting.

JCW I don't know, I don't think I could really.

There must be a way JCW although it will be very difficult in many cases. Unfortunately some of the people involved in the campaigns don't seem altogether keen to pursue that.

An independent Scotland would be one of the wealthiest countries in the world

If I had a pound for every time I saw that line trotted out I'd be a rich woman. It's Nicola Sturgeon's mantra. Salmond trots it out at regular intervals - but the problem is it's based on inaccurate calculations, over estimations and mitigating factors all of which must be taken into account before making such simplistic and gradiose claims.

The UK of which Scotland is a part, is one of the wealthiest countries in the world - currently 6th GDP and 8th PPP.

Scotland's placing with full allocation of oil revenues currently attributed to the UK (quantities of which are in dispute with financial analysts claiming the SDPs figures have been vastly overestimated). - GDP per capita would place Scotland in 14th position. Therefore Scotland by its own calculations would be a comparatively rich country when you consider that the population is relatively small, but the figures being used are looking at the position of Scotland as it currently stands within the set-up of the UK.

Much would depend on the negotiations after the referendum, and the investment decisions of big companies.

The size of any country's GDP is hugely affected by the currency too, so if whether or not Scotland were to stay in a currency union with the rest of the UK, would have a considerable effect.

GDP also does not show how wealth is spread within a country. Scotland may well be comparatively rich as an independent country, but whether or not the population would "feel rich" would depend on the policies of a post-independence Scottish government.

To every claim and pronouncement there are layers of mitigating factors underneath - which are glossed over by separatist politicians. They are only giving you the good, the bright, the rose tinted, the optimistic view of the future and so many seem to just accept what they are being told without question or analysis.

I have the same problem JohnCusacksWife re facebook stuff. I'm pretty quiet on there, don't even have a wee symbol. But there is a good friend who is doing potentially irreparable damage to our friendship with the endless stream of stuff they are posting. It's like their "will this hurt someone" filter is broken.

SantanaLopez

Hah, good point. I can't find a link but I do think that's what was mooted, though.

Flippin, I've been trying to go to bed for the last hour or so too but have been sucked in to the debate. Must go soon...getting cross eyed..........

johncusackswife I think you have a fair bit of deleting to do on FB.

scone you need to stop dismissing people like that. Some of the posters have already been told their jobs will be lost/moved to England if there is a yes vote. It is not a 'maybe'.

But we're not in the same 'helpless mess as the rest' sconequeen. We have a Scottish Government with devolved powers if they would only actually use all of them and use them effectively.

Unless you sign up to a CU.....

Well that's one decision an independent Scotland could make for itself ie whether it wants to sign up for a currency union or not. This referendum is not about deciding about whether we want a currency union; that is just one of the options on the cards, and, in the event of a Yes vote, we would be able to make our own decision as to whether that was the best option.

Sorry - I'm getting tired. I mean of course SNP's not SDP's.

Team, deflect all you want. It's indicative of the attitude of very many Yes supporters in my experience. And I can delete all I like on FB but these people are still in my life. They laugh it off when questioned as "being passionate". I just think it's aggressive, bullying and intolerant.

johncusackswife yup, me too. I'm really enjoying the discussion on here.

Don't they need the partner in the C Union to agree? So it's not a decision Scotland can make for itself.

For disengagement and lack of accountability I don't think Edinburgh council can be beaten. And they're my fellow Scots.

I find it bizarre that people imagine that Scots are inherently more trustworthy, kind, liberal etc than the UK pop as a whole. And I say that as a liberal Scot.

Well that's one decision an independent Scotland could make for itself ie whether it wants to sign up for a currency union or not.

Is that a one-sided decision then? Funny. I thought rUK had something to say about that.

Same here johncusackswife.

And not a decision it is likely we will have another chance to have a say on before actual independence. Whilst we could of course vote for parties who include other currency options in the future, if it's a Yes now we will get the currency option that is negotiated/agreed/decided on by the current SNP government. At the moment that's CU followed by use the £. I've outlined the issues with both in terms of the impact on Scotland - never mind the getting UK to agree issues for CU.

Scotland can't make its own decisions sconequeen indeed no country can any more. Unless you want to close the borders and eat potatoes from your back garden any country is subject to international forces.

NCforAy he might have a little bit.
In that scenario of the 3 I want only 1. I suppose I'd have put Devo Max second.

You could end up with Yes but only squeaking through using second choices. No, I think that wasn't a good idea.

It would have needed a 2 stage process if No wins there is a second ballot, held quickly offering the existing powers or Devo Max. If Yes wins on the first one, even knowing there was a second chance for Devo Max then that's clearer.

scone you are doing what AS does Well that's one decision an independent Scotland could make for itself assuming that rUK will want it - you would need to ASK us if we would like to do that.

Well that's one decision an independent Scotland could make for itself ie whether it wants to sign up for a currency union or not. This referendum is not about deciding about whether we want a currency union; that is just one of the options on the cards, and, in the event of a Yes vote, we would be able to make our own decision as to whether that was the best option.

Aghhhhhhh! That's just it - it's not up to you. What bit of that are separatists not understanding? 'It's our pound too' just doesn't cut it.

Sterling is the currency of the UK - from which you are planning to part company. The lender of last resort is the Bank of England - as I wrote elsewhere - the clue is in the name. You cannot have currency union without fiscal integration that will involve a degree of political union - which the Scots by voting for independence are clearly saying they do not want.

You can't have it both ways - you can't have your cake and eat it. The governor of the Bank of England and numerous others have already said it is 'impossible'. Which bit of 'impossible' are separatists finding so hard to understand?

You won't be able to make your 'own' decisions about currency union with the UK because there isn't an option on the table. It's either print your own currency or join the Euro - if the latter is an even an option that is.

"Well that's one decision an independent Scotland could make for itself ie whether it wants to sign up for a currency union or not."

Surely it can decide who it asks to form a union with. It cannot insist on acceptance, whether it is Euro, Sterling, Yen, US dollar, or any other currency. It can only 'sign up' to what is on offer, and that is not in Scottish hands.

Latte, have you not read the script? If AS says it will happen, it will happen! ;-)

Well that's one decision an independent Scotland could make for itself ie whether it wants to sign up for a currency union or not

Are you married or in a relationship? If so which one of you decided to get hitched because by what you've just said it can't have been a mutual decision.