to think England (and Wales and NI) Should have a say

[LEMmingaround]

In the Scottish referendum.

My own personal view based on not very much more than gut feeling is that a yes vote will be a bad thing for the whole of Britain. Being English i don't have a vote.

Surely thats not right. It is going to affect us. Don't we get a vote?

Bit late isn't it LEM? The vote is on Thursday.

I've lurked on all the Indy threads and am British, living in England, so get no vote.

I understand what you're saying. The best analogy though, that I've come across is the EU.

If, the UK holds a referendum to leave the EU, would we expect the other members to have a say in our decision?

So. Although I understand, I think that the people of Scotland should decide, one way or the other.

Tippy that is a fair point bbut surely the link with Scotland is stronger.

Yeah itsa bit late i guess.

Scotland has always been separate though, from England and Wales, with different laws etc.

The links with Scotland May seem stronger to those of us in England, Wales and NI, but sadly, it appears that around half the population of Scotland disagrees.

It will affect the rest of us, hugely. It is actually scary how much of an impact separating will have. It will affect defence, finance, clout in the world, trade... so many things and I don't think a lot of people realise just how serious it is - either side of the border.

Before looking into it as much as I have recently, I thought 'No, of course we shouldn't have a say, it's like a divorce, only one party needs to want out, you can't make them stay'.

However, now, I think the impact will be so huge for everyone, that I don't think they should be 'allowed' to leave - but how on earth could it be stopped. Should it be able to be stopped?

It feels 'wrong' to say we should be able to stop it, as wrong as making someone stay in a marriage against their will. But really is that emotive? Is it more like enforcing a legal contract?

I would like the people of Scotland to have independence if that is what they want, if it's what the vast majority want (not this pissy 1% either way) BUT not like this and maybe not at all if it is going to have such a huge effect on our world standing - and I truely believe it will.

Tippy the EU comparision is a good one.

I know we can't stop them and really shouldn't be able to.

It just feels like a lot of people don't understand what will actually happen if it goes ahead, it feels like a lot of the vocal yes are just 'Fuck You Westminster' :( I know that sounds a bit patronising in some ways and it's really not meant to be, but so much of it has been political shite and very little REAL information.

I get the impression that cameron snd his cronies didn't take it seriously to start with. Now i would imagine a fair bit of buttock clenching going on.

I'm in Scotland and agree. The fallout of a 'Yes' vote won't be limited to Scotland, it will be felt throughout the UK.

It just feels like a lot of people don't understand what will actually happen if it goes ahead, it feels like a lot of the vocal yes are just 'Fuck You Westminster'

^^ Sadly, it's true.

I hope they get their independence and then they can stop all this nonsense of being 'oppressed' by England! Let them stand on their own feet.

The uk government has bent over backwards for Scotland with devolution, no tuition fees, free prescriptions, different laws.

We even have the clocks put back to accommodate Scotland and end up with children coming home from school in the dark.

I would vote for yes.

I totally agree LEM. His arrogance may well be his undoing.

It's a vote on dissolving a Union, so if Scotland wants to secede then I think it is just up to them.

However, altering terms of a Union affects all parts and I think every region should have a say on the shape of a continuing union. I think the 11th-hour dreadfully unspecific offer of devo-max is just plain wrong.

pinkrose thus proving my point.

Absolutely pinkrose. Those pesky Scots with their different laws and everything.

I really don't know very much about politics and i am sure im not alone in the thinking that this was just a bit of toy throwing so kept my head in the sand. Ihonestly can't see what good a yes vote would achieve. As tippy said Scotland already has a fair amount of autonomy. So why change? Yeah things are a crock of shit in the uk just now but how will this improve things for anyone?

This attitude is one of the reasons that's driving the referendum. Our vote and voice gets lost in the many in the uk. Our opinions and choices now get ignored.

This is our one chance to get people to listen and pay attention to the scottish people and to hear what we want from our country.

It would be pretty pointless if once again England/London just ended up shouting over us again...

But what will it achieve?

A bit of toy throwing? Oh my word.

Pink rose, I suggest you read up on things such as nhs Scotland, to give you a better understanding that it isn't uk giving us 'freebies', it's scottish government choosing to prioritise different things from it's budget.

Our free prescriptions etc are nothing to do with Westminster.

What will it achieve? It means that our vote will actually count and WE can decide how OUR country is run, not a Tory Westminster.

For the past countless General Elections Scotland's vote made absolutely no difference to the outcome. I, for one, am sick of it.

It will achieve us having a say in how our country is governed.

I'm not saying it's going to be amazing and an instant success, but the uk isn't exactly feeling that successful at the moment either...

We will be able to vote in a party that we want to vote for. Surely that's what democracy is all about?

I know you aren't trying to be rude, I understand that you are worried and are speaking from the heart.

However it is so patronising to say people don't know what impact their vote will have. I understand from friends and family that the media coverage in rUK has been differen but the economic impacts of a YES vote have been extensively discussed in the media, in town halls, on doorsteps, at fining tables and at school gates across the land.

Scottish education is excellent, we're pretty smart as a nation. We're not blindly making our marks on ballot papers. We're making a considered choice, one way or the other for our nation.

My friends are about evenly split yes/no. None of them 'don't understand' what they are voting for.

Please give us a little credit.

Totally agree Bright.

I really like the EU example, thanks. Personally I believe that this is Scotland's decision and wish them well in whatever outcome they choose for themselves, however, I also believe that there should be a rUK referendum on decisions such as whether rUK goes into a currency agreement with Scotland.

In the absence of this, I think there maybe a boycotting of Scottish goods and services by some people in rUK because this is the only way they can have a say or have their voices heard and that can't be good for anyone.

MsMarvel MY voice gets lost in Westminster, lots of English voices get lost in Westminster. Do the Scottish people think they are the only ones who aren't heard? Really?

I really, really don't think that people understand the impact this will have. It is not going to be the running through green fields many of the Scottish people seem to think it's going to be and it's not going to be the 'oh well, you only have yourselves to blame - crack on' separation many in the UK think it will be.

FFS it's like siblings fighting. You don't just let the 11 yo go and live with Aunty Maude because the 12 yo always wants to be The Boss. You crack both their heads together and work out a way where they can both be happy at home.

Well said bright.