to think England (and Wales and NI) Should have a say

[LEMmingaround]

In the Scottish referendum.

My own personal view based on not very much more than gut feeling is that a yes vote will be a bad thing for the whole of Britain. Being English i don't have a vote.

Surely thats not right. It is going to affect us. Don't we get a vote?

It doesn't really matter if one feels colonised, its not a matter of opinion but of fact.
And I don't believe I commented on anyones self identification?

The question here was should the rest of the UK get a say in the referendum. And the answer of course is hell no. You can not want it, you can be scared about it, you can be delighted.....your feelings are your own. Your vote, however, is not wanted or important to the matter at hand.

That should read 35 years where England let to a Conservative government over Scotland

Facts?

Your selective interpretation of them more like.

Pinkrose - I'm going to address your points specifically because you appear to have some issues with Scotland in general. I know it's hard to accept that your country isn't the Boss any more. Shouting "go on, go!" makes you sound a bit like a drunken jilted lover singing I Will Survive at karaoke.

I believe someone has already addressed you lack of knowledge about where the funding comes from to allow Scotland to abolish prescription charges and resist the introduction of tuition fees.

As for the Glasgow Helicopter accident. Right. OK. I don't know where you live, but I suspect it's f'ing miles and miles away from where this happened. I don't. I live 10 minutes away. It was awful. It still is. We are a small city. So when you start "complaining" that a Scottish MSP (who represents the people of Glasgow South in the Scottish parliament) didn't see fit to include the people of England (WHO SHE DOES NOT REPRESENT ON ANY LEVEL!) in her tributes to the people who have died, I am beginning to wonder if you have any idea about the levels of representation in the UK, or what the difference between the Scottish Parliament and Westminster even is. Many many UK representatives came to visit (Nick Clegg springs to mind) to share the condolences of the rest of the UK.

There's some fascinating discussion on this thread (I happen to think people outside of Scotland should no have a vote. Up until 4 years ago that would have been me, despite being Scottish. And my English husband has a vote, on account of living here. Those in the country should be the ones to decide) but your level of misunderstanding is indicative of those south of the border coming late to this party and flaunting their ignorance all over the internet for all to see. It's embarrassing and it's offensive. Sorry.

I haven't intrepreted anything in that statement. i imagine you're just bristling at the thought of being a colonial.

A lot of people were most upset at indian independence too, and how that would affect them.

I haven't been following the referendum closely and am not Scottish, but can anyone tell me why 16/17 year olds are eligible? I mean legally, not opinions on whether that's a good or bad thing.

I do understand what you are saying OP and then along comes people like pinkrose! Can I point out pinkrose that Westminster have not "gave" Scotland free prescriptions - the Scottish Government have decided to do that out of their health budget, just the same as Westminster have decided not to out of the English NHS budget and spend money on other things they see as a priority that Scotland doesn't spend as much on such as walk in centres. Argh!!! When I see the ignorance in comments like that I'm not surprised some Scottish people want to vote yes!

The experiences of Scotland (and to a much larger extent Ireland) under the Union don't fall neatly into the box labelled colonialism. Much more complicated than that, so it's not 'fact' to say so.

Pinkrose you haven't stated a fact and you are ignorant - what part of budget priorities don't you understand? Westminster have not gave Scotland free prescriptions.

And re helicopter crash Nicola Sturgeon is Scottish deputy minister whereas David Cameron (although English) is UK Prime Minister.

Flipflops, the legal age of capacity in Scotland is 16. It's 18 elsewhere in the UK, I believe.

And you pinkrose sum up the attitude that has helped a lot of people make up their mind to vote yes. Thankfully I do realise that you don't represent every English person, although you certainly represent yesterday's Daily Mail headline "why don't the Scots shove off" type of thing which was strangely replaced in the Scottish edition by a plea from DC to save the union.

Good book here on the topic if "Internal Colonialism".

Dh studied it when he was at Uni late 70/early 80s as part of his geography degree. Looks like it's been updated since then (or at least, a new edition with an intro relating to the changes since it was first published)

The Scots have a right to be independent if they wish, the English and the Welsh should also be able to vote for independence for themselves if they wish. You don't have the right to tell other people that they must remain under your country's control.

I hope the Scots vote for independence. They'll be able to make their own decisions regarding foreign policy, local matters, the power will be in the hands of those who will be affected by the outcome.

Perhaps it'll encourage the English and the Welsh to wrest power from the political class and demand the country is run to the benefit of the majority rather than from a top down ruling class which is not representative of peoples views and which has repeatedly ignored peoples wishes for their communities.

People should rule themselves, not live under a ruling class which makes all the decisions, ignores their experiences, opinions and holds them in contempt.

I haven't read the whole thread but I don't see how you think giving the English, Welsh and Irish a vote would work. What if Scotland votes yes and the rest of us vote no? Do we then force Scotland to remain in the union when its voters have expressed a desire to leave? Similarly, what if Scotland votes no and the rest of us vote yes? Do we then expel Scotland from the union?

Personally I hope Scotland votes no. The yes campaign has been deeply dishonest. I'm not saying the no campaign is perfect either but for the yes campaign to claim that everyone else will roll over and give an independent Scotland exactly what it wants is ridiculous. It also worries me that polls show that a sizeable slice of yes voters believe extensive oil reserves have been discovered in the North Sea but the government is hiding them. It also worries me that many yes voters seem to think they can try independence and reverse the decision at a general election or another referendum if they don't like it.

Whilst I am sure an independent Scotland could be a successful small nation I think the short term effects of independence on the Scottish economy will be very painful. Unfortunately that isn't just a Scottish problem. It could pull the rest of the UK into recession as well.

Where have I said the Westminster government 'gave' Scotland free prescriptions and tuition fees? I thought this was because the Scottish parliament budgeted this themselves?

And the Glasgow helicopter tragedy was felt throughout the UK and if nicola sturgeon opted to exclude the rest of the uk in feeling sympathy well it shows her lack of basic humanity. When Cameron expressed distress it was for the whole country, including the scots.

As why don't scots living outside Scotland have a vote? It's their country too. Or are they regarded as outcasts and defectors. Many Scots work in other parts of the uk and the world but intend to return to Scotland at some point. Why shouldn't they have a say?

Fact: free prescriptions, tuition fees, elderly care, own parliament, Scottish law, the artificial 'british summertime, etc. where have I not stated a fact? Most people in the uk would like those benefits.

If they want to go, go or shove off if you like no one will force a union but economically, militarily and much more, Scotland will suffer as will the rest of the UK, at least in the short term.

For the second time, Cameron represents the whole of the UK. Sturgeon represents Scotland.

And if you want free subscriptions etc, join a political party and lobby for them.

Pinkrose, you said upthread -

The uk government has bent over backwards for Scotland with devolution, no tuition fees, free prescriptions, different laws.

What did you mean by that?

Good news, some will get a say!

My sister was on the phone to a Welsh customer who told her he and his family were half Welsh, half Irish, and had registered to vote at a mate's house in Glasgow. They plan to come up on Thursday, vote Yes, and stay the weekend in the hope of enjoying a giant party.

Anyone who had sufficient interest in the vote has had the opportunity to move up and register in time. So if you don't have a say it is because you have chosen not to.

I think Scotland will suffer either way now. In the event of a yes, I believe that there will be economic turmoil, at least in the short term. In the event of a no, I believe that everything will be back on the table including the Barnett formula. I feel desperately sad for the Scots whose lives could thrown into turmoil through no fault of their own.

How many lies did they have to tell to secure a vote?

So they're essentially committing electoral fraud

...doesn't matter which they are voting, it is wrong

Flyawaylittlebutterfly

Brilliant post. I think the United Kingdom as it currently is, is unwieldy and expensive/difficult to manage. Scotland (and maybe Wales, NI if they so wish) breaking away will be painful for England in the short term but long term it would be good to see England able to focus on the imbalances within it's own society. To even out the social and fiscal disparity that exists at the moment.

The political 'ruling classes' living in their rarefied bubble work for themselves and treat the rest as tiresome, unruly, ungrateful children.

Agree with prettybird that is wrong. The vote should be for people who live there.