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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think England (and Wales and NI) Should have a say

127 replies

LEMmingaround · 14/09/2014 09:24

In the Scottish referendum.

My own personal view based on not very much more than gut feeling is that a yes vote will be a bad thing for the whole of Britain. Being English i don't have a vote.

Surely thats not right. It is going to affect us. Don't we get a vote?

OP posts:
scarletforya · 14/09/2014 10:47

Excuse me, but how the feck will it affect me here in the Republic of Ireland?

I'm not part of your anything, so stop the OUR OUR OUR

We are another country to you. We're not part of your united kingdom. We're an independent sovereign state. That happened last century and the sky didn't fall in.

I that you're scared but you can't stop the inevitable.

Ireland

pinkrose1 · 14/09/2014 10:51

Having discussed this with friends the consensus is if people south of the border had a say it would be a resounding yes, regardless of what the leaders here say.

And n sturgeon was speaking as a Scottish minister. Pity she wasn't speaking with common humanity.

grocklebox · 14/09/2014 10:52

Many of these sentiments were bandied around when Ireland wanted her independence,they were told that they were better off in the UK, would fail on her own, should be grateful etc etc. They needed an armed struggle to achieve independence and you still kept hold of part of the country

Just because you've colonised a country for a long time doesn't make it any less a separate country. You've only had Scotland for what, four centuries? Half the time you had Ireland for and they never stopped trying to get away. The scots language was wiped out, the land cleared and appropriated,and mass emigration forced by English politics and economics..

Looking at this from a practical and financial modern perspective is missing the point. English people think the history to it is ancient and unimportant. But its not your history. And you don't understand how deep the feeling of difference is.

LatteLoverLovesLattes · 14/09/2014 10:54

Scarlet You said

Scotland can be it's own country if it wants. latte your posts are just full of 'ooh poor England, what will happen to us', going on about losing your 'standing' in the world!

My OUR OUR OUR is about Scotland and England (Wales and NI as well) OUR. Not OUR as in England OUR as in the UK.

I misread you as being in NI, sorry. But it had nothing to do with my point.

Yes, I am scared, I have said that. I am scared for ALL of us. ALL of us currently in the UK.

sheepgomeep · 14/09/2014 10:55

Its not just England stuck with a tory government is it? Its Wales and NI too. Everyone seems to overlook the minority countries and for tbh i half hope Scotland do become independent because hopefully Wales may follow suit and we can get shot of England.

Ok i dont really think that but I can see why Scotland and Wales and NI get despondant when its all about England and how it affects them

poppyandthepanther · 14/09/2014 10:57

I'm scared if we stay together.

treaclesoda · 14/09/2014 10:59

as a Northern Ireland person, who wants to remain part of the UK, even I can see that if Ireland had been allowed to go it's own way a couple of hundred years ago, it might have prevented an irreconcilable situation that we have at the moment. Because although there was a minority who wanted to stay in the union they were very clearly a minority.

Scotland isn't really directly comparable, as it's such a different situation, but still, the rest of the UK wanting a say in how Scotland decides could easily lead to the sort of resentment that built up here over a period of time. And look at the mess we're in because of it.

Let Scotland decide for themselves, no one should get to decide except them.

scarletforya · 14/09/2014 11:00

Well, I hear that you're scared but you can't use another country to prop yourselves up if they don't want that. Scaremongering isn't going to help your cause!

grocklebox · 14/09/2014 11:01

You might be scared for the whole of the Uk, but Scotland is halfway out of the door and Wales is just taking notes. NI would be given back if the gov could get away with it (its a huge money pit the tories would love to be without)......its England you're crying for, lets be real here.

LatteLoverLovesLattes · 14/09/2014 11:03

Why Poppy?

treaclesoda · 14/09/2014 11:05

latte with the greatest respect, making the assumption that someone means NI when they say they are Irish is exactly the sort of thing that frustrates the people of Ireland, all of them, north, south, east and west, and from every political outlook.

LatteLoverLovesLattes · 14/09/2014 11:07

Oh for the love of God Scarlet. I am as worried about the people in Scotland as I am about the people in the rUk. ALL of us. It is not about using Scotland to prop the rUk up, it's about supporting EACH OTHER. It is not 'scaremongering' it is fact, belief. Not scaremongering.

No Grockle it's not, you are wrong.

LatteLoverLovesLattes · 14/09/2014 11:10

treacle it was a mistake, not an assumption. Most of the people I know are in Ireland, not NI, it's not an assumption I make. I thought we were all talking about people in the UK and their opinions. Not the opinions of those not in the UK.

treaclesoda · 14/09/2014 11:11

sorry Latte, my apologies.

grocklebox · 14/09/2014 11:13

The opinions of those from countries who have been in the uK and are no longer are absolutely relevant, and the fact you disregard them says a lot about perspective here.

LatteLoverLovesLattes · 14/09/2014 11:13

treacle :)

LatteLoverLovesLattes · 14/09/2014 11:17

Grockle This thread is about whether other people in the UK should have a vote or not.

JanineStHubbins · 14/09/2014 11:19

I would have thought that perspectives from the only country to have left the Union were very relevant to the current Scotland debate, actually Latte.

grocklebox · 14/09/2014 11:19

I know that. That doesn't mean no-one else has relevant points to make.

Cloudhowe63 · 14/09/2014 11:51

The rest of the Uk did have a say. The UK government agreed to a referendum and ensured the Devomax option was not on the ballot.

TeamScotland · 14/09/2014 11:53

No, they shouldn't.

BardarbungaBardarbing · 14/09/2014 11:57

grockle I am British from Scottish, English and Irish roots with Welsh in-laws.

There are many different identities.

BardarbungaBardarbing · 14/09/2014 11:58

My Scots family did not feel colonised and, rather like James VI himself, went off and became British with gusto.

BardarbungaBardarbing · 14/09/2014 11:59

Anyway it's the Scots living in the rest of the UK I feel sorry for but Salmond knew what he was doing when they were locked out of the referendum.

Handsoff7 · 14/09/2014 12:05

Lemming, I had a look at election results since 1955. Scotland enabled Labour governments when rUK voted Conservative or there was a deadlock in rUK between 1964-66 and 1974-79.

Overall across 59 years there were:

17 years where both countries got the government they voted for,

7 where Scotland caused a labour government over England

35 where England caused a labour government over Scotland.

England and Scotland rarely agree over politics. As England is far larger, usually Scotland is ignored. This is why independence is on the table. If England, Wales and NI were included, it seems likely Scotland's views would be ignored again.