to think England (and Wales and NI) Should have a say

[LEMmingaround]

In the Scottish referendum.

My own personal view based on not very much more than gut feeling is that a yes vote will be a bad thing for the whole of Britain. Being English i don't have a vote.

Surely thats not right. It is going to affect us. Don't we get a vote?

My turning point came when nicola sturgeon said (of the Glasgow helicopter disaster) the people of Glasgow and of Scotland are devastated by this tragedy.

And the people in England, Wales and Ireland didn't give a Fuck?

And the cynicism of the Scottish government giving the vote to 16 and 17 year olds, the vast majority have no conception of worldwide economics and no memory of financial difficulties, but are just fired by the idea of independence.

For Alex salmond (glib, smug) it's win win. Independence or further power for him.

Cameron the other leaders were stupid and complacent and they may end up regretting it.

I think it's madness to suggest that the rest of the UK should get a say in the matter, although I personally am hoping for a no vote.

If you look around, it's not hard to see the long term consequences of forcing country A to be ruled by country B just because the people of country B think it's better that way and to hell with what country A thinks.

Good grief pinkrose that level of ignorance about Scotland is surely one reason Scottish people want to leave.

Poppy I can see why, in theory, that sounds good. We can have a say in how our country is run. However, have you stopped to think about how this will affect defence, the economy (yes the Scottish economy, I don't expect you to give a crap about the rest of us), the fact that the UK has an international power greater than our size now due to our 'age & union' < that will be lost.

Unless we could see the real balance sheet for who pays what and who benefits and who loses, no one can say what the true economics are re prescription charges, NHS free care.

If it's a divorce analogy then the rest of the uk should encourage Scotland to have it's independence, not stand in the way. Why would anyone want someone to stay married to them when all they do is complain and want out?

brightbutchilly some people will have taken it upon themselves to make an informed decision. Of course they will. Many others will vote 'Fuck you Westminster, Fuck you England' without any concept of what this actually means.

Ignorance?

I've only stated facts.

I want Scotland to have its independence. Yes, yes, yes.

Pink because we ARE Better Together. Because we ALL benefit from being together. We will ALL lose a lot internationally if we split. This 'Oh if they want out, send them packing, all they do is whinge' mentality is the English equivalent of the Scottish 'Fuck you Westminster'. It is just so naive.

Its already affecting my family. When the predictions said a yes vote the value of scottish based businesses dropped. My dp have an endowment on their mortgage. This may now not pay out enough to cover their mortgage.
They are too old to get another one and may end up homeless.
We have no say in this.
It pisses me off but did the British government listen to my voice when deciding that only people in Scotland get the vote.
Its shit.

The referendum is happening because it was a manifesto pledge of the SNP, who got voted in with an unprecedented majority (we have PR, and our parliament has been set up to make it almost impossible for one party to get a majority).

If England, Wales and NI want to have a referendum, then it's up to a political party to put it in its manifesto and then persuade people to vote for it. It's that simple.

I have absolutely stopped to think about what it actually means. I've watched all the programmes, read all the articles over many, many months and came to an informed decision. I have sat on the fence, I've considered a No vote and finally decided on a Yes. This is not a decision I've made lightly and have listened to all sides. I've already voted Yes and I'm still debating heavily with fellow Yes voters about what it's going to mean for us.

People throughout Britain are sick and fed up of the way the UK is being run and this opportunity is giving Scotland the chance to stand on its own and make it's own decisions. I absolutely do not think it's going to be easy should we get independence. It's going to be a difficult transition and there will be many decisions made from the negotiations that I'm sure I won't be happy with but I'm looking at this long term and at creating a better place to live for my children. And for me that starts with having my vote actually count. Having hope for the future is a very strong sway for people when staying together looks so bleak based on what we already know.

The problem with allowing everyone in the UK to vote on Scottish independence is that more than 90% of people eligible to vote would be living outside Scotland. So you could have a scenario were very single voter in Scotland voted for independence and if even a moderate majority in the rest of the UK voted against then Scotland would be forced to stay in the Union.

Can you imagine what would happen to the UK if a majority of Scottish voters wanted to leave and the rest of the country forced them to stay? In that situation I can imagine scenarios that would have far worse consequences for the country than those of allowing the Union to split.

Littledrummergirl. Precisely. Would a 17 year old Scottish voter have any conception of this type of financial implication? Hence my accusation of cynicism by the Scottish parliament.

I would much prefer the union to remain, but not in the face of Scottish nationalism, and not against their will.

Scotland can be it's own country if it wants. latte your posts are just full of 'ooh poor England, what will happen to us', going on about losing your 'standing' in the world!

Well Boo hoo, England will just have to cut it's cloth like every other country in the world. You can't force Scotland to remain part of England if they don't want to be.

And so what if they're saying fuck you Westminster. They're only doing the same as every other country that escaped the 'British empire'.

I'm Irish btw, looking at this from across the pond. I think it's outrageous and arrogant that anyone outside Scotland should expect a vote in this. It's Scotland's business what they decide.

To respond to the Nicola sturgeon point you had, surely he can only speak for the scottish people as they are who she represents?

It's like me coming out and saying 'the French are devastated by the helicopter crash'. I'm sure they were, but not really my place to speak for them?

Bright

I am watching something at the moment, the people of Paisly are being interviewed - they are being asked if them being 500 a year better off would make them vote one way or another - the vast majority are saying 'Yes it would'.

FFS

Obviously I'd like a vote - and I know it is going to affect the rest of the UK but I can see why we can't and why it wouldn't be right.

We will have a vote on how the break up is handled I hope - although I suspect not.

The costs to us are going to be high.
And there are people on all sides who haven't thought it through - and those that have.

I was watching the helicopter tragedy with sadness and horror. Would Cameron or any other leader ever say we in 'England' are devastated by the murder of the aid worker by IS? N sturgeons statement was very decisive.

No Scarlet OUR OUR OUR standing in the word, our defence, our trade, our political voice - Scotland and England (Wales and NI).

If you think this wont affect you either, you are wrong.

The aid worker btw had strong Scottish links I believe.

Sorry - just realised how anodyne and pointless my post was.

I actually care very much - DP Scottish, family there, despair - but trying not to make things worse

I didn't mean to offend anyone with my comments as i really have to hold my hands up to ignorance of the whole thing.

I have two scottish friends both huge patriotic they are voting no.

I have to say that from my point of view i am worried that scotland leaving will result in england being stuck with a tory government.

Please please stay! !!!

Pinkrose, are you being deliberately obtuse?

David Cameron is the UK prime minister, not England's.
Nicola Sturgeon is Scotland's deputy First Minister.

It's nothing to do with patriotism LEM. I hope the vast majority of non Scottish residents understand it's nothing to do with being anti-English and everything to do with controlling our own country and finances and not accepting crumbs of power given to us by Westminster.

I as an English woman would never exclude a whole nation/s from being saddened by a tragedy just because I was English. But frankly, you sum up my whole argument about Scottish nationalism. You want your freedom so you are welcome to it.