Indyref 10. The Marathon Continues..

[WildThong]

All welcome

DH is Catholic and the family are definitely no. There are no yes stickers or badges on anyone at his church either. Obviously only an anecdote, but I don't think you can draw a divide anywhere in the various sections of the population.

Are you trying to sound patronising, OldLady, or is it just an unpleasant side effect?

Sorry Rooners that's exactly the sort of answer I'm talking about - one company based in Aberdeen & they are 'big pals' with salmond? How about you just stick with the fact you have no idea why they have that stance & leave it at that? But you can't can you? Crass stupidity? Fools? The sad part is that sort of language is the very thing that's fuelling the yes vote & like Danny Alexander on newsnight earlier in the week (who was handed his arse on a plate) far too many no campaigners can't seem to help themselves in doing/saying the very thing it's been highlighted as turning people away from the reasoned arguments they want people to listen to. It's the very definition of patronising & still it's everywhere on these threads, in the media, coming from WM.

The article posted earlier with Gordon Brown detailing that what's happening in this referendum is both infuriating & fascinating. He's so 'switched on' to what the Scottish electorate are grappling with (how to function in a globalised world in the context of how the financial consequences of that impacts every aspect of our lives) that he only just got involved in this debate throwing in the devo max option with no cross party discussion/debate/consus & no sway or authority in making that a possibility. If he knew so much about what this is about & how to deal with it in a measured & reasonable way, why not do something 2 years ago? You know, when the campaigning started & after the SE made it clear there was an issue to be addressed & dealt with?

Because as much as people can try & pin this down to economic arguments & the uneducated fools walking blindly into the financial Armageddon anticipated, what this is also about is the fact vast swathes of people in Scotland & all over the UK are just 'scunnered' by politicians & their ever constant ability to bullshit & evade the realities we all worry about. This referendum is a UK wide concern & there has been no effort to engage the whole of the UK in this until that times poll threw up the obvious to anyone listening to the disgruntled not so big surprise that BT hadn't managed to scare the bejesus out of the Scottish people enough to keep a lid on the discontentment that's been brewing for years, here & elsewhere.

I'm not worried about a yes vote just because salmond's figures don't add up but because even though that's the case, it doesn't trump the effect not listening to people that WM politicians have indulged in for many, many years. So when BT spell out the economic reality of separation & the hardships we'll all likely endure, & really really want people to believe them this time? Well, are any of us really surprised how easily salmond has been able to gloss over all that so effectively that we are looking at the real possibility it could end up yes?

Oh come on Santana, No voters are so scared of being attacked in broad daylight that they willingly approach rabid Yessers and have a nice chat, as some sort of social camo? Really? Other than the egg thrower, everyone who has been charged/convicted of physical assaults and making death threats have been on the No side.

I read it as people prefer not to say they're voting no, so they take a leaflet and make noncommittal noises. Whatever.

Ah ok, I follow you now OldLady - my brain is well and truly minced today!

When they could just walk past and not engage? Or, as I read somewhere, cross the road to avoid them?

vast swathes of people in Scotland & all over the UK are just 'scunnered' by politicians & their ever constant ability to bullshit & evade the realities we all worry about.

Yup, unfortunately one of those politicians is Alex Salmond

No problem, IrnBru, it's a fast-moving thread, and so much excitement coming in from Glasgow, Inverness, and even Cardiff!

I really dislike that attitude. We've all got to live together. If you're so offended by a leaflet that you have to cross the road to avoid a Yes or a BT stall- you've got serious problems.

"Why would a No voter even get into chatty conversation with someone at a Yes stall? "

OldLady haha well DH ended up chatting to a presumably No voter this morning making absurd claims about the price of oil increasing if we need to import from America and how it would be damaging for the UK. DH had to put him straight, as this old chap was stirring up bother. We were peacefully minding our own business chatting to a Yes volunteer at the time, but this chap in his sixties instigated the conversation re oil. We had to be polite and I said I wasn't changing my mind and will still be voting Yes. He looked crestfallen.

"But then Catholics still tend to be poorer on average"

Jeezo, enough with this sterotyping!

Afternoon ladies.

Colleagues have also told me they've told Yes canvassers they are voting Yes simply to make them go away.

I wondered about the loudness of the Yes campaign. It has been very well done. They knew they had an uphill job to persuade people. From what I was reading last week and, if I understood it correctly, it was something around people joining in with the momentum and getting swept up with it all which I guess is an emotional decision? To me it just comes across as bullying and aggressive, bluster rather than fact. But there are lots of people who will be voting Yes for other reasons rather than because they have fallen for the propaganda machine. I am still trying to understand what those reasons are :)

As a pp said earlier, the only poll that counts is on Thursday. I know there are a fair few people just in my office who are undecided (or so they say :))

prettybird I am glad it went well. No matter which side people are on we should be able to debate it in a civilised way.

Oh and one other thought and my apologies as this was probably covered in earlier threads, but it still makes my blood boil. I was reminded of it by the celebrities points earlier. The letter from the 200-odd business leaders saying vote yes. They are the ones who don't have to worry. The celebrities who say vote yes. They are the ones who will be fine. They have the finances to back them up. Probably overseas or south of the border. They would put all these jobs, people's lives, families, in jeopardy because of some residual burning hatred of Thatcherism, I don't know what. Yet the business leaders of the No campaign have been decried as scaremongers. JK Rowling got absolutely hauled over the coals and I thought for someone as protective of her privacy as her to come out and do what she did was fantastic. Yet you Mr Jim McColl of Monaco, sitting from your tax haven throne, have the gall to tell me that it's all fine and I should vote yes? So can someone please tell me when the Souters, McColls and Grosserts are going to invest some of their own money into this socialist Nirvana to make it happen?

The Yes campaign need look no further than their own doorstep to shout hypocrisy.

I swore off these threads yesterday but have continued to watch as the debate on here is good and informative for me.

I had to pop back as a Glaswegian Catholic to say that among my family and friends we wouldn't let idiots like the Orange Order influence our political views. We hate them for their bigotry, right enough, but don't instinctively associate them with the No Campaign or 'Britain.'

And the idea that we Catholics are mainly poorer might have been true once upon a time but things are far more diverse now. Religion, for the average Glaswegian, is not the big deal it once was. Thankfully.

But this thread has reminded me of something a friend once overheard in a hairdresser's: "Catholics? In Milngavie? But how can they AFFORD it?!"

Don't worry, we've heard it all.

I can understand saying Yes (when you're No) to a canvasser on the doorstep, because you want them to go away and don't want to have to explain your thoughts, absolutely. It just seems a bit odd to choose to engage in the street. But, hey ho.

have managed to guess & speculate on the stance of AAM without any reference whatsoever to any fact or evidence to support their speculation

I posted a link to the hard facts of the colossal fine AAM got for being cavalier with other people's money.

Then Project Fear really has done a number on No voters. Imagine living your life like that.

You mean living in the real world?

Is this what we are in for if yes wins? Anything it doesn't like to hear about or any bad news is "scare mongering" " not true" " made up" and dismissed.

Imagine living a life like that.

Where in the "real world" are No voters being attacked in the streets by Yes stall staff?

Duke of Norfolk poor, do you mean? This thread has degenerated IMO. I have friends on both sides of the political decision facing Scotland this week. We are all still friends.

We were all still friends when some of them voted Tory and the others didn't. When I boycotted South Africa and others thought 'politics should not be involved in sport'. When one of us sent her Dc to private school and everyone else didn't agree (one or two were offensively vocal, IMO, yet they are still friends).

I know I am in a lucky position that most of my close family are voting the same in the referendum as I am.

Aww, Murdoch is going to surprise us all by coming out for yes is he? Maybe he could get together with Souter and McColl and start a grassroots campaign, "Billionaires for Yes"

My enemy's enemy is certsonly my friend if yes is embracing Murdoch. What next Trump.

Oldday I don't follow your point. I was responding to yet another comment that any reporting of why this is a bad idea is "project fear"

"Certainly"

Spiritedwolf