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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Indyref 10. The Marathon Continues..

999 replies

WildThong · 13/09/2014 11:18

All welcome

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ChelsyHandy · 14/09/2014 14:34

BakerStreet Yes the route of the NI conflict was religion rather than politics, but this is stating to look more and more like it, just with Yes/No instead of protestant/catholic. The way people are behaving is so similar, it's frightening.

I've noticed strong similarities too. Scotland though seems to have more of a tendency to fight its battles via the internet and constant complaining and agitating, but who knows how it could develop. There are plenty of parts of Scotland where you would probably be beaten up if you said you were a Conservative supporter, which is hardly the mark of a tolerant country.

I think a lot of people have been shocked at just how much intolerance there is in Scotland, that the Referendum debate has highlighted. I don't think any of this has done much for Scotland's reputation on the international stage, it would have to immediately evolve into a very serious, hard working country that would draw together to redeem it, and I don't think that's likely to happen.

I was so saddened by LovelyRita 's disdain for working hard and for people who do so. It seems to sum up the attitude of "Naebody's going to tell me what to do" sector (borrowed from another poster) of Scottish society that seems to be having a field day.

LovleyRitaMeterMaid · 14/09/2014 14:34

Grin touche!

They aren't representing the government by refusing permission for a day of no gatherings in the park.

LovleyRitaMeterMaid · 14/09/2014 14:35

Show me my disdain chelsy, please do.

LovleyRitaMeterMaid · 14/09/2014 14:37

Do not continue to misrepresent and misquote me.

Everything I have said is there in black and white. You quote me in context and show me where I've said everything you seem so hung up on insisting I am.

ChelsyHandy · 14/09/2014 14:39

LovelyRita if you cannot justify your own opinions, you are hardly worth the effort of someone else spending time on doing so for you.

The world doesn't work like that.

Theres a lot about this debate in general which makes me wonder if a high level of sociopathy is involved in those driving it. I googled "traits of a sociopath" and possession of several of the traits below is apparently indicative of it:

"Lack of empathy – Inability to feel sympathy for others or to understand the emotional consequences of their actions

• Cold, calculating nature – The ability and willingness to use others around them to personal gain

• Shallow emotions – Lack of real emotion in response to events, limited capacity to feel love

• Narcissism – A personality disorder in itself in which the individual feels strong love and admiration toward themselves (often a defense mechanism against deep seated low esteem)

• Grandiose self image – They might see themselves as someone who is superior to others and sometimes even experiences delusions. A sociopath might see themselves as a fitting ruler of a country or even the world, but might also have delusional beliefs such as seeing themselves as a God or having super powers

• Charming – While the sociopath is unable to fully understand the emotions of others, they are capable but rather highly adept at mimicking them and might appear to be charming and normal at first

• High IQ – Often sociopaths will exhibit a high IQ which they can use to manipulate and plan

• Manipulative – Sociopaths use their superficial charm and high IQ to manipulate others to get their ends, and their lack of empathy allows them to do this with no sense of guilt or remorse

• Secretive – Has little need for others and is highly secretive in their actions meaning

• Sexually deviant – The lack of remorse, guilt or emotional attachments means that the sociopath is happy to have affairs and to engage in questionable sexual activity without questioning their desires

• Sensitive to criticism – That said, like all narcissists, the sociopath will desire the approval of others and will be highly sensitive to criticisms. They often feel they deserve adulation and admiration of the world and might feel victimized

• Paranoid – Often their lack of understanding of emotion along with their incongruous self view means that they feel a lack of trust and paranoia

• Despotic/Authoritarian – Often the sociopath will see themselves as a necessary authority and will be in favor or totalitarian rule

• Lawfulness – Despite popular belief, a sociopath is not likely to be a problem to the law in later life, but rather will seek to find loopholes, to rise to a position of power, or to move to another area so that their behavior is tolerated

• Low tolerance for boredom – Sociopaths require constant stimulation and get quickly bored

• Impulsive behavior – A lack of regret and empathy means makes sociopaths more likely to make sudden rash decisions based on the current facts

• Compulsive lying – As part of their facade, and as a means to an end, sociopaths are compulsive liars and will rarely speak truthfully making them hard to pin down

WhatWouldFreddieDo · 14/09/2014 14:40

chelsy am on a terrible internet link so it's difficult to post but I was just trying to point out how cutting ourselves off from the UK won't help any fight against neoliberalism! ReJoining the EU of course is equally limiting if that is your goal.

I remain a staunch No vote because of all the reasons covered in these threads

livingzuid · 14/09/2014 14:41

I got belittled for expressing my concerns for my family by a Yes voter. Woe is me, I believe the poster said. Forgive me for having concerns about how to look after my family in the onset of a yes win, particularly of importance given I am the sole breadwinner. And this is not a country I recognise right now. Whilst I still think a Yes is not going to happen, I somehow wasn't allowed to be worried about the outcome?

ChelsyHandy · 14/09/2014 14:41

OK Freddie, much the same here! I used your name because of the quote you used! I get your point now doh!

OneNight · 14/09/2014 14:42

It's too late in the day to get personal on these threads.

The bikeshed is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

LovleyRitaMeterMaid · 14/09/2014 14:42

They are not my opinions, you are making a good attempt at making it look like they are for some reason therfore the onus is on you to show where that came from.

WildThong · 14/09/2014 14:44

It is worrying living, many of us feel it.

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LovleyRitaMeterMaid · 14/09/2014 14:45

You are going to a lot of effort to portray mu opinions. The easy thing for you to do would be to go back and quote me directly where I have made hurtful comments about middle class people, my disdain for hardworking people and the other things that you have accused me of

Fontella · 14/09/2014 14:45

Chairthing - diolch for the Welsh tokenism.

As for the rest of your post - the only person who seems to have got their 'back up' over what I wrote is you, and if you don't mind me saying you are quite the dab hand at the 'emotional rhetoric' yourself.

I never suggested for a moment that Scotland was 'begging the rest of the UK like a screaming child' or anything of that nature - just erroneous nonsense on your part.

I've contributed to a thread as have many others. You, for some unfathomable reason have chosen to take offence at what I have written and feel yourself perfectly justified to accuse me of bigotry and bias.

I can see that it is completely pointless to respond to you any further, so I suggest we leave it there.

WildThong · 14/09/2014 14:46

Oh dear, what a rabble marching on the BBC. Watching on news. Obviously been organised. I am actually embarrassed now.

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LovleyRitaMeterMaid · 14/09/2014 14:47

Chelsy you are intent on telling me what my opinion is.

Do you realise how arrogant that is?

You have misquoted me and misrepresented me several times on this thread.

Either prove it or apologise.

OneNight · 14/09/2014 14:51

Does anyone else have concerns for the general issues associated with the environment? I feel that they are largely being overlooked in this whole referendum debate and we have a huge responsibility to pass a green and pleasant place on to our children.

ChelsyHandy · 14/09/2014 14:51

LovelyRita you don't get to make the rules.

I wouldn't be surprised if Salmond was a sociopath, there is a certain element in society that occurs. Its 1 in 20 or 1 in 30 or similar. And then if you look into the psychological problem of groupthink, it can explain how certain leaders can whip up a sizable proportion of a population into following them.

What I don't understand is that how Salmond, so lacking in charisma, can do it.

I'm not claiming to be some cod psychologist, but I'm trying to find some rational explanation for the madness that seems to have suddenly overrun my once peaceful country. I'd love to hear an actual psychologist's opinion on it.

FannyFifer · 14/09/2014 14:53

I see you have a new target Chelsy since I have pretty much left the indyref threads, how lovely.

The funniest thing is, in the definition of a sociopath you have posted, you have pretty much described yourself & the way you come across on these threads.

Anyway best of luck to all those campaigning on both sides.

Stat, thank you for all your excellent posts which I have gotten a lot from.x

bideyinn · 14/09/2014 14:53

It's not a rabble, it's people exercising their democratic right to protest against censorship by the state broadcaster. There have been several such demonstrations in the last few weeks

noddyholder · 14/09/2014 14:53

It doesn't matter that the NI conflict came from religion and this doesn't. I am taking it out of direct comparison and just commenting on how horrible it is to live side by side with people who seem to hate each other. The small day to day things etc

FannyFifer · 14/09/2014 14:55

got not gotten, is that even a word.

LovleyRitaMeterMaid · 14/09/2014 14:55

Let's ignore your copy and paste definitions of sociopaths. I'm not quite sure where you are going with that.

Tell me why you have went to great lengths to slander my character and tell people what my opinion is.

StatisticallyChallenged · 14/09/2014 14:57

You're welcome FannyFifer.

WildThong · 14/09/2014 14:57

one I suspect that environmental concerns are pushed down the list of priorities during campaigns like this. I read upthread that Willie Walsh was supporting Yes because he hopes for a reduction in Airport Duty which is counter productive in terms of emissions.
But tbh, I haven't heard either side even mentioning it.

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ChelsyHandy · 14/09/2014 14:58

LovelyRita this Referendum is about the people of Scotland, not about what you said on an internet site. Its not about you. You have said so many unpleasant things about so many people, do you really think that other human beings have any wish to trawl though your previous posts, as opposed to doing something pleasant with their Sunday afternoon? Why?