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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Indyref 10. The Marathon Continues..

999 replies

WildThong · 13/09/2014 11:18

All welcome

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EarthWindFire · 14/09/2014 14:06

Bad phrasing there, waiting for pain meds to kick in but you get what I mean.

ShakesBootyFlabWobbles · 14/09/2014 14:06

I'm sure fontella's language wasn't meant to cause offence in the way people have taken it, but her underlying points on the negotiations between the UK and Scotland in the event of a yes vote could become confrontational/aggressive/hostile and the UK won't necessarily agree to what is being asked, seems fair enough, and this is a subject that has been regularly commented on throughout the threads.
Just look at the the currency union position, it is just one thing out of a list of hundreds/thousands that will need to be negotiated and look how badly that is going.
Although I 100% don't want hostility between the independent Scots and the UK folk, both parties must act in the best interests of its people and for many areas, this will cause much upset.

WildThong · 14/09/2014 14:07

Which is a pity as about 6 threads ago there was some good discussion but there's no room for that any more
Is that when you joined in?

"Frothing and Frenzy, intimidating, paranoid, deranged" says more about you tbh, than the other posters.

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OneNight · 14/09/2014 14:09

It surely would. Whatever happens we all have a responsibility to try to minimise people's distress.

AnnieHoo · 14/09/2014 14:09

I said 'for me' three times in a row there. I'm probably bizarre. Blush

livingzuid · 14/09/2014 14:09

taking charge of an income stream and pushing forward with renewable energy? Scotland already does this, particularly in key areas such as health and education. The renewable energy sector is booming, particularly in the east of the country. Why is that going to change? Is everyone in the UK suddenly going to stop paying income tax and NI? No one needs energy south of the border anymore?

Fiscal freedom this can and will be achieved through a more devolved structure which the whole of the UK is moving towards anyway.

Taking responsibility for our own future and existence? Why isolate yourself from the whole of the EU and you nearest trading partner? And, ditto above. More devolution powers are on the way, not less. What is more effective, being part of a country of 5 million or part of a country of 60 million + and all the resources that brings?

I don't know how we've come to the point where anything positive about an independent Scotland is a pipe dream, and anything to do with remaining in the union is grounded in fact (nothing is certain). Um. Well. Some things are certain actually. Tell me what is going to change so dramatically when you wake up on Friday morning and find you are still part of the UK. Or for the years after that.

Of course nothing is certain, that is life. Governments come and go and policies change. Recessions hit and then disappear. But I'm not prepared to embrace the kind of uncertainty such a dramatic change would bring. Particularly where it is unnecessary and brings negligible change.

"pie in the sky" I was prepared to listen, understand what it is that makes a Yes vote so vital for the future of Scotland. I want to build our lives here, invest my energy into making my community a better place. I have repeatedly asked for details. I want to know what will happen. I've been told nothing apart from rhetoric and propaganda. Nothing factual. When we are told, well we don't know yet, can you blame people for being so dismissive?

Your language (Scotland should go. The neighbours won't roll over... no matter how they scream and shout) shows your bias and bigotry. You want Scotland to play fair, but have no intention of supporting fair play yourself. You are the reason we are here, and people like you, shouting "FINE THEN GO!" are an embarrassment to those who are genuinely committed to keeping the union together.

Rubbish. What is there to not understand about the fact that, if Scotland chooses to have independence, then it is on its own? The independence argument has been going since before I was born. It's bloody boring and tediously petulant. I am fed up of hearing how done by people feel they are. There's just as much poverty, if not more, in areas of Wales and England. Scotland is not alone in dealing with these issues yet has more power already than other parts of the country to tackle them. Refer to my earlier comment about Yes voter driving a BMW disparaging those politicians and 'what have they done for us'.

Many millions of people are really rather fed up of hearing the complaints both in Scotland and out of it over the generations and it is time, one way or another to bring it to an end and move on.

Explain to me why all those south of the border should give a damn and support Scotland with its independence? The Yes 'movement' will find it is owed nothing by the rUK. The language used by the SNP has been beyond childish, as is the general 'you can't tell us what to do Westminster' tone that's all I have observed thus far.

I cannot believe that people would blithely vote for independence with no concept of what that really entails, plunging millions of people into financial and social turmoil for years. For what? A principle?

The Yes campaign is possibly the most inward-looking and naive I have ever had the misfortune to come across. The comedown is going to be immense should madness prevail and Yes carries the day.

WildThong · 14/09/2014 14:09

Fanny what? Sorry I don't speak Klingon Wink

You'll be back....

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LovleyRitaMeterMaid · 14/09/2014 14:09

Oh i see what you done there, implied that I ruined the threads.

Clever.

I've been on these threads since number 2. Sometimes more vocal than others.

bideyinn · 14/09/2014 14:11

I would agree lovelyrita.

Thought it was all welcome on this thread? But I shouldn't post about media bias because you've all discussed it before. I don't live under a bridge but in an affluent part of Glasgow. I work in a much less affluent area and have friends all over the UK and indeed the world but all the discussion around the ref that I've been involved in has been very cordial and respectful of others views, both ways. I just wanted to put that alternative (to this thread) view across

WildThong · 14/09/2014 14:13

It was a joke.

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AnnieHoo · 14/09/2014 14:16

Team Indythread10 Smile

StatisticallyChallenged · 14/09/2014 14:17

This thread doesn't have a single view. It has some very strident Yes voters, and some equally strident No voters.

Media bias has been discussed very extensively. On almost every thread, if not every thread. There's little else to say - the Yes voters have essentially stated that all UK mainstream media outlets are biased. It used to only be some and others were quoted as good. Then they started coming out as in favour of a No vote, and suddenly we're being advised to read the Russian Times for impartial news. We're told that Wings Over Scotland is more trustworthy than major economics experts.

There comes a point where shouting bias and scaremongering at every person/source/organisation who publicly disagrees or highlights issues with your arguments begins to sound rather silly. Some Yes voters have long since passed that point.

ChelsyHandy · 14/09/2014 14:18

LovelyRita you give a deeply unpleasant impression of despising a large number of your fellow Scots, just because they don't agree with you. This is something I've noticed in this campaign a lot.

You also seem to have a strong dislike for people you can't control - you go on and on about people who suffer real problems in their lives, and how you personally can intervene in this. Then you make really quite abusive comments about the "middle class" and what people like them supposedly do and don't say and think.

Its really not the viewpoints of a very balanced person at all. Your behaviour is actually quite appalling, and its a shame no-one has taken the trouble to point it out to you before now. That observation is nothing to do with class and everything to do with your attitude towards your fellow human beings.

OneNight · 14/09/2014 14:19

Maybe we should all remember what William Waller (an English General for Parliament) wrote to his very good friend Ralph Hopton (a General for the King ie in opposition to him.)

Part of one his letters reads

'We are both upon the stage and must act such parts as are assigned us in this tragedy, let us do it in a way of honour and without personal animosities.'

livingzuid · 14/09/2014 14:20

Hmm except it won't end will it. Around half the country will be unhappy with the result come Friday. I wonder how we will move on from there and get to a more functioning place. No one at work at the moment is doing much of anything, there's that level of uncertainty.

LovleyRitaMeterMaid · 14/09/2014 14:22

And historic Scotland isn't a government agency. Why is blatant misinformation like that left unchallenged? Because it suits?

noddyholder · 14/09/2014 14:22

This thread is indicative of what could happen post the vote no matter what teh result. The damage is done and will take a lot of undoing. I was brought up in Northern ireland and have seen first hand what living with that division is like and its not pretty

livingzuid · 14/09/2014 14:25

annie I am waay behind on the thread but if we could thumbs up the separation over unity comment I would Smile

Interesting that Murdoch decided going full throttle on Yes. The man makes me shudder with how much influence he's somehow managed to get.

WildThong · 14/09/2014 14:25

Add message | Report | Message poster LovleyRitaMeterMaid Sun 14-Sep-14 14:22:14
And historic Scotland isn't a government agency. Why is blatant misinformation like that left unchallenged? Because it suits?

Executive Agency of the Scottish Government

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livingzuid · 14/09/2014 14:26

Doh decided against.

OneNight · 14/09/2014 14:26

In fact you might be interested in the fuller quote.

'That great God who is the searcher of my heart knows with what a sad sense I go upon this service, and with what a perfect hatred I detest this war without an enemy; but I look upon it as sent from God . . . God in his good time send us the blessing of peace and in the meantime assist us to receive it! We are both upon the stage and must act such parts as are assigned us in this tragedy, let us do it in a way of honour and without personal animosities.'

ChelsyHandy · 14/09/2014 14:26

ChairThing and WhatFreddieDoes whatwouldfreddiedo Changing neoliberalism and the capitalist system is not going to happen by cutting ourselves off

You do realise that the EU is based on traditional and strongly entrenched neo-liberal principles, that the Single Market that any new entrants must sign up to is founded upon the unfettered market, opening up of competition and freedom from governmental and political restraints to free trade?

So I assume you would wish an independent Scotland to remain outwith the EU?

livingzuid · 14/09/2014 14:27

Historic Scotland is impartial in the debate. All museums and galleries and the like are impartial.

LovleyRitaMeterMaid · 14/09/2014 14:29

Quote directly my abusive comments about the middle class. In context. Please?

Because you have cried about that several times yet never quantified any of it. I mentioned the middle class last night on the back of someone commenting about "middlecclass people" getting free prescriptions. Their inverted commas.

But please don't continue to take my word for it. Go back and show me.

WildThong · 14/09/2014 14:33

Correct, re government agencies. I work for a 'Quango' there are Rules and guidance about what to say/not say in public etc. However that doesn't entirely ensure impartiality as there is an obvious reliance on government funding or subsidy to be taken into account.

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