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AIBU?

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Indyref 10. The Marathon Continues..

999 replies

WildThong · 13/09/2014 11:18

All welcome

OP posts:
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StatisticallyChallenged · 13/09/2014 21:14

Yup, if we are going to go all Orwellian that could be argued easily for t'other side too. So lets just...not go there, eh?

squoosh · 13/09/2014 21:16

I still really, really hate the word 'iScotland'. So naff, so sponsored by Apple.

WildThong · 13/09/2014 21:18

I've thought that often squoosh

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grandtheftmanual · 13/09/2014 21:18

DH and I are sitting outside (not on our acres, but in our tiny backyard) and I've been reading him the posts over the last hour. His comment - it's like watching a train wreck. There was a BT Q & A in our area tonight and they had to have a police presence on the door.

StatisticallyChallenged · 13/09/2014 21:18

I'm sure they could invent an iSalmond - a gadget that turns cuts into surplus, lies into truth and fiction into facts. Every politician will want one.

Chunderella · 13/09/2014 21:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SantanaLopez · 13/09/2014 21:19

I'm not sitting here thinking iScotland will be all milk and honey.

Except at 20:44:28 you said you thought that an independent Scotland would be 'even more wonderful'. Which is it?

TeamScotland · 13/09/2014 21:19

iScotland isn't a word it is just short for Independent Scotland, like LTB is short for Leave The Bastard. Handy to use.

TeamScotland · 13/09/2014 21:19

Even more wonderful does not equal milk and honey.

livingzuid · 13/09/2014 21:21

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I sympathise with your statements and have some further questions. Which are open to anyone really, but your comments helped shape them. Hoping I get a response to some of it, and sorry if it's old ground.

I think the most vulnerable in society will stand a better chance of having a better life.

Scottish charities, for example, operate separately from English ones. They benefit from Gift Aid, a UK wide initiative, and other things unique to Scotland as well as benefits from being in the UK, such as the ability to fundraise across the UK. Once independence is granted, much of this funding will cease. There are a number of papers on this published by the Institute of Fundraising, where charities are very concerned about their ability to raise sufficient funds to continue their work. I am very concerned that some of the support we are currently able to access for personal reasons will stop.

How then, will an independent Scotland be able to give more provision rather than less?

I do not trust Westminster politicians one little bit.

Very few people do. But then, I don't trust Holyrood either. Different cut of the same cloth. Nasty lot all of them, and not just here. It is the same where I have lived in Europe. But why will this be different? Politicians generally serve one master which is themselves. This is the bit I get stuck on time and time again. I have seen nothing to convince me that the Scottish Executive are, on the whole, not as self serving as their counterparts in Westminster. Who is going to fill this vacuum? Where are the leaders of the future?

The statements about prices going up, banks moving head offices (my bank's head office is in Spain, they can move any time they like if they wish), large company bosses (who mostly don't live here) saying how awful it will be, just don't wash.

I think this is incorrect in that we know change, much of it negative, will happen. It is inevitable. Markets don't like uncertainty and there has been a ton of uncertainty already with even more to come with a yes vote. There will be 18 months before Scotland becomes independent, and it has to in that time sort out currency, taxation and all those other things that have been mentioned. In the meantime, businesses want to make money which they can't do if they don't know what an independent Scotland would look like. Money has been flowing south of the border since a referendum was announced in 2011, with even more of it going offshore. It will get worse. Jobs and redundancies are already being rumored. I know this because I am potentially in the firing line. You could, if you were being cynical about it, even go so far as to assume it is a great opportunity for them to restructure, cut a load of jobs and go south or across to Europe.

Your bank may well stay put. Banks such as RBS and HBOS, which are in part owned by the UK taxpayer, may well have to migrate south. The mess in sorting this alone is huge.

As to cost, oh yes it will be more expensive. You need travel no further than the Netherlands or France to ask people what happened once they adopted the Euro. And it will also be more expensive because it will be more costly for companies to operate in a Scotland that is not part of the EU and not subject to whatever myriad of laws they have to keep trading flowing freely within their borders. Which Scotland won't be in for a while. I have no doubt that it would happen, but it takes an awfully long time to negotiate with the EU!

None of us know what it will be like.

On this we are most definitely in agreement Grin I suspect many companies and organisations are on waiting watch depending on the outcome of the vote. But this again is the other major point where I get stuck. So many people are prepared to put their faith into the complete unknown. Mortgages, pay, tax, everything. With no concept of how much it will cost or how much time it will take to get there. In the meantime, there is Scotland as an independent nation outside of the EU, outside of the partnership with the UK. With a population of under 5 million when I thought a good viable population size was 7 million +. Having lived in both Singapore and New Zealand I know the struggle smaller populated nations have. And believe me, both of these lovely countries struggle in ways that can't be seen from the glossy outside marketing.

How do you make it viable? How do you prevent the brain drain? Because of the uncertainty? How do you make it work financially when experts have predicted the cost of just setting up independently is 4bn? Why would you want to enter the EU as a minnow with no clout whatsoever and very little to bring to the bargaining table? And why on earth would anyone want the Euro and the problems that brings? (It can be great, I am a huge fan, but not right now!).

And will taxation, passports, immigration, security, currency, central Bank, pensions, DVLA, energy, transport, all those things we take for granted now but have no current infrastructure, will all of this be done in 18 months? I refer back to my Edinburgh tram!

TheBogQueen · 13/09/2014 21:21

I used to like these threads but some new posters are coming out with truly outlandish stuff.

Comparing the anti English feeling of a few idiots to what happened in Cambodia Shock

I really respect the regular 'No' campaigners on here - but Christ almighty .

Anyway ,

It looks like Scotland will get a triple AAA credit rating post- independence. The report is balanced I think - predicting a tough time but not apocalypse.

Anyway exciting atmosphere on glasgow today - lots of Yes and No Thanks stickers

StatisticallyChallenged · 13/09/2014 21:22

TheBogQueen Moody's said A.

WildThong · 13/09/2014 21:23

How about NawScotland instead?
Just joking, since it's Saturday.

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SantanaLopez · 13/09/2014 21:23

So what does it equal then? What will life be like? You've obviously chosen to disregard the warnings of high unemployment and recession. Why?

SantanaLopez · 13/09/2014 21:24

Just joking, since it's Saturday.

Grin
Roonerspism · 13/09/2014 21:24

bog Moody's said scotland will get a triple A rating? Eh?! I don't think so!

squoosh · 13/09/2014 21:26

I'm sure they could invent an iSalmond - a gadget that turns cuts into surplus, lies into truth and fiction into facts. Every politician will want one.

Grin
WildThong · 13/09/2014 21:26

bogqueen re bizarre postings; some eejit last night compared the relationship between Scotland and the rest of the UK to an abused child and a "paedo"
She got short shrift as well.

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StatisticallyChallenged · 13/09/2014 21:27

Moody's

"Moody's says that Scotland's credit profile would almost certainly be consistent with an investment grade rating. While there are significant uncertainties associated with Scottish arrangements post-independence, an 'A' rating is perhaps the most likely at the outset, but with risks tilted to the downside. "

SantanaLopez · 13/09/2014 21:27

TheBogQueen- An 'A' rating is the most likely at the outset, but with risks of a different outcome tilted to the downside '.

here, opens PDF

SantanaLopez · 13/09/2014 21:27

Jinx Grin

WildThong · 13/09/2014 21:29

Here is the "igadget"

Indyref 10. The Marathon Continues..
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TheBogQueen · 13/09/2014 21:32

Hmmm

I have Standard&Poor's report

"In brief, we would expect Scotland to benefit from all the attributes of an investment-grade sovereign credit characterised by its wealthy economy (roughly the size of New Zealand's), high-quality human capital, flexible product and labour markets, and transparent institutions," said S&P in the report.

"Nevertheless, the newly formed sovereign state would begin life with comparatively high levels of public debt, sensitivity to oil prices, and, depending on the nature of arrangements with the EU or UK, potentially limited monetary flexibility.

"At the same time, Scotland's external position in terms of liquidity and investment could be subject to volatility should banks leave.

"On the other hand, if this were to happen, it could bring benefits in terms of reducing the size of the Scottish economy's external balance sheet, normalizing the size of its financial sector, and reducing contingent liabilities for the state.

"In short, the challenge for Scotland to go it alone would be significant, but not unsurpassable."

StatisticallyChallenged · 13/09/2014 21:32

Scottish Independence Poll (Panelbase):
YES - 49.4%
NO - 50.6%

TheBogQueen · 13/09/2014 21:33

You know what

I'm bloody sick of it all

Wine
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