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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Indyref 9

999 replies

IrnBruTheNoo · 11/09/2014 14:00

...

OP posts:
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 12/09/2014 20:33

I can imagine negotiations with AS or NS (or their clones with different names) and the suave Dutch, French and German European Commissioners. "Have you considered the issues of subsidiarity and how it will via the mechanism of horizontal and vertical direct affect impact upon your parliamentary sovereignty, albeit via the relevant Treaty provisions, considering your recent national and currency stated issues?"

AS/NS/Clone: "Och aye, its aw in thon Wee Blue Book".

Nice piece of stereotyping there. I'll file that under " too stupid" ?

I feel like organising a mass ceremonial burning of that feckin Wee Blue Book

You shock me! I would have thought from your previous posts you would have thought it would be more SNPs style. And of course it is self published, it is a political pamphlet. I don't see Penguin queuing up to publish BT booklets...

EarthWindFire · 12/09/2014 20:33

"f off back to England more than once

My friends young DC (under 10) has had that yelled at them twice this week Angry

BasketzatDawn · 12/09/2014 20:34

FWIW I do not think Alex Salmond is anti-England. Being pro-Scotland or pro-independence is not the same thing. I have wanted an independent Scotland for as long as I can remember (I missed voting in the last referendum by weeks). This time I will vote Yes, as will my English husband and our 4 sons. And most of my wider family. Of those, only one son and my brother and his family are actual SNP members.

AS has many qualities but I'm not mad about him, but he is really just a politician and not that different from ShinyDave and all the rest in terms of the attributes he gets criticised for. Arrogant? Well, couldn't that apply to many of WM cabinet? Stonewalling questions and trying to manage interviews to have their own 'side' reflected as well as possible? Ditto.

Anyone listening to Radio 4 Any Questions tonight?

StatisticallyChallenged · 12/09/2014 20:34

I have to admit Roonersporm, I'm becoming increasingly concerned too. For all the cries of "bias" on this thread, there is a definite issue of groupthink in some segments. You just have to look at all the people calling for boycotts of every single company who has said anything negative about independence. It's like they're taking it as a personal slight rather than just a statement from a company about their business/operating model. I've been told several times that "Scottish people think" followed by a statement that I absolutely disagree with. But when I've said that...I'm called English (I'm not), traitor, rich botch (also not)

For all the positives of increased engagement, overall Scotland is not a place I am enjoying being at the moment.

ChelsyHandy · 12/09/2014 20:34

I have nightmares about the Wee Blue Book being adopted as the Constitution of NewScotland, in keeping with the prevalent political attitude that the country is to be run by politicians who dream they are dealing with children playing in a sand bit and hence have to use baby, shouty, makey-uppy, language, preferably a Scots word with a "y" attached to the end.

It would have to become the "Wee Blue Booky".

And Scotland becomes even more of an international laughing stock. Do any other countries in Europe actually behave like this. The whole Referendum is a demonstration of lack of preparedness, incompetence and bad temper.

SarahScotia · 12/09/2014 20:36

No-one on the No side has said that particular phrase, but it is useful shorthand for all of the things they do say.

I think that is fair comment. Let us also not forget the bronzed droplet of wisdom from the fear campaign's Lamont, that we as Scots are 'genetically incapable of making political decisions'. :)

Thank you for the welcome mumsnet, I look forward to joining in more as we head towards the big day.

cedricsneer · 12/09/2014 20:37

I'm totally stealing self published fan fiction!

BasketzatDawn · 12/09/2014 20:38

Incidentally, before Alex Salmond was a politician he was an economist. Much better qualified to discuss economics than many of us here.( Ha ha, that read as 'comics' not economics before I fixed it). I do know some of you have got economics background so not suggesting otherwise.

IrnBruTheNoo · 12/09/2014 20:38

I'm sorry to those who have experienced first hand abusive behaviour from the Yes or No side. It is wrong and out of order for anyone to behave in such a despicable way, let alone direct that abuse towards a small child. I am upset on your behalf (trying to imagine it happening to one of my own DC, it would be terrible). I have not witnessed any of that type of behaviour when being out and about locally. Hoping to head into my local town centre tomorrow though and will report back about what the atmosphere is like. Will be taking a mental note.

OP posts:
SantanaLopez · 12/09/2014 20:39

FWIW I do not think Alex Salmond is anti-England. Being pro-Scotland or pro-independence is not the same thing.

Of course not, but the campaign which AS is leading has some very nasty elements of anti-Englishness that are really quite prominent, especially on social media. It sours the entire campaign.

ChelsyHandy · 12/09/2014 20:39

Statistically For all the cries of "bias" on this thread, there is a definite issue of groupthink in some segments. You just have to look at all the people calling for boycotts of every single company who has said anything negative about independence. It's like they're taking it as a personal slight rather than just a statement from a company about their business/operating model. I've been told several times that "Scottish people think" followed by a statement that I absolutely disagree with. But when I've said that...I'm called English (I'm not), traitor, rich botch (also not)

It seems to me that Scottish people are very prone to falling for groupthink. Look how long they unblinkingly voted Labour for, while still believing it would "cure poverty".

You can't rationalise against it. Its such a psychological support, I guess the psyche would fall apart or something if you removed it.

I always tend to go my own way and make up my own mind rather than following things. I'm oblivious to advertising - I take in all the tunes and little film scenes without any idea of what product they are actually selling. In my education and job, I've read far more correct sources than the Wee Blue Book and Bella Caledonia, which would never be published by a mainstream publisher because they are biased propaganda. I don't care what artists, pop stars of film stars back whatever campaign.

BasketzatDawn · 12/09/2014 20:41

Statistically, I feel similarly about living in Scotland at present. I think many people do. I just want to know the result now, then we can all get on with whatever we have to deal with.

trixymalixy · 12/09/2014 20:41

self published fan fiction

Grin

I actually am quite horrified at how many people have read the wee blue book of cherry picked figures with no critical thought whatsoever.

StatisticallyChallenged · 12/09/2014 20:41

I watched the debate where Lamont said that, it was a clearly sarcastic response to Nicole Sturgeon claiming we'd miraculously be better at which has since been twisted in to a derogatory comment it was clearly never intended to be.

Re Alex Salmond - I don't actually doubt that he knows the true economic state. Which is part of the reason I find him quite so odious. He's standing there telling what he absolutely knows are blatant lies.

StatisticallyChallenged · 12/09/2014 20:44

I always tend to go my own way and make up my own mind rather than following things. I'm oblivious to advertising - I take in all the tunes and little film scenes without any idea of what product they are actually selling. In my education and job, I've read far more correct sources than the Wee Blue Book and Bella Caledonia, which would never be published by a mainstream publisher because they are biased propaganda. I don't care what artists, pop stars of film stars back whatever campaign.

This pretty much sums me up too actually. Unless the advert has a cute cat, then I tend to notice Wink

BasketzatDawn · 12/09/2014 20:46

Ach, I think part of it is just people making sweeping statements. My own feeling on the shops remarks is roughly- I could live on if I never shopped in JL again. Ditto Waitrose. Tesco we use only if on the point of starvation. Morrison's say they'll drop prices? Good, we shop there already. Asda, I rarely use. Most people in this whole debate are looking at their own situations for all the issues. Politics has always been thus, I think.

IrnBruTheNoo · 12/09/2014 20:46

I'm away to watch the STV debate on STV Glasgow channel but before I go, I just want to post one more link for tonight (it's light hearted, I promise!):

Johann, you crack me up!

OP posts:
trixymalixy · 12/09/2014 20:48

AS got a 2:2 in economics and medieval history so hardly the brightest of economists.

I tend to agree with statistically that he knows fine well that the figures don't add up, but would say anything to get a yes vote and his name in the history books.

SarahScotia · 12/09/2014 20:48

`I always tend to go my own way and make up my own mind rather than following things. I'm oblivious to advertising - I take in all the tunes and little film scenes without any idea of what product they are actually selling. I don't care what artists, pop stars of film stars back whatever campaign.^

....er....well done? Isn't this the base aspiration of every freethinking individual?

moggiek · 12/09/2014 20:50

And Scotland becomes even more of an international laughing stock. Would you care to expand on this, Chelsy?

BasketzatDawn · 12/09/2014 20:50

But there's been nastiness from 'NO' side too. I read a really nasty anti-Scotland tweet from Louise Mensch a few hours ago. And it was ignorant and factually incorrect too. WTF, I though she had fled WM politics for a better life in the USA. Confused

grandtheftmanual · 12/09/2014 20:52

Itsall your post 20.03. I'd find it much fairer and far more relevant if it was perhaps 'Team UK' rather than Team WM. Team WM is a cheap shot

ChelsyHandy · 12/09/2014 20:56

Itsallgoing Nice piece of stereotyping there. I'll file that under " too stupid" ?

Ach itsallgoing a nation which cannot laugh at itself isn't a nation at all.

BasketzatDawn · 12/09/2014 20:56

I go my own way too. That's why I'm voting Yes, and not No. In fact I'm very polite so it's a 'Yes, Please' from me. Grin

In fact the majority are probably voting for the side that they think will help them most, or do least harm. On a personal level. Looking no further than the immediate family and friends circle. I seriously do think independence from WM will be better/no worse for my own immediate family, and most of the 'scary' stuff does not frighten me. That's it really.

StatisticallyChallenged · 12/09/2014 20:58

Can you explain why you think WM will be worse for your family Basketz? There is now real reason to believe that very significant cuts would be required in an iScotland.

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