To be Worried About How Bad The Atmosphere In The Uk Will Be In The Event Of A No Vote?

[CalamityClara]

The tension between the yes and no parties is awful. Campaigners from both sides are behaving in a very aggressive manner and I've even heard the odd report of people getting into physical altercations If the result of the referendum is no I fear Scotland is going to descend into chaos, things aren't just going to settle back down. How can we ever come back from this? I honestly fear there is going to be violence.

There are always one-off or once in a generation decisions to be made: go to war; join the EU, join the Euro; abandon the gold standard, decimalisation, etc.

Those examples are not really in the same league.

It's going to be awful either way. Obviously considerably less awful if no but if yes it's going to be years of uncertainty, bitterness and austerity for no reason at all.

Maybe I live in a naice middle class bubble but I have not experienced any animosity or defacing of posters etc. and have not fallen out with any of my relatives or friends, I don't even know what most of them are voting for. My Facebook has had a majority of yes related posts but no really inflammatory ones and no flaming of those who disagree.
The nastiest stuff I have read has been written by columnists in the Daily Mail, all of it anti- Scottish.

Incidentally, I am friends with a senior policeman who told me that the police are on alert and ready to deal with any disturbances, they are expecting to have to do some crowd control along the lines of a major football match rather than full scale riots.

Where are you all going to move to? If the market is flooded with houses going up for sale you will struggle to sell at a decent price, better wait and see how it pans out for a while.

I don't know if there will be much trouble. It seems to me the vote is quite concentrated, I for example am a Yes supporter and I don't know a single person voting No in rl. I know one No supporter who is an old friend through social media, but she lives in Aberdeen and it seems there are more No voters there.

I'm unsure as to why Yes voters are anti-English, dh is English and voting Yes. It is not about hating rUK, but trying to do the best for the country we live in, I hope that the panic we've caused Westminster politicians stays until the next election and they are forced to listen to people for a change.
There also hasn't been very much trouble so far, except on social media. We are all talk .

I typed a large response as to why I am petrified of a No vote, but there is really no point in posting it here as I'm unlikely to get my point across and likely to argue with someone who has an opposing view.

Oh and the referendum came about because the Scottish public voted the SNP in with a majority and a referendum was in their manifesto, that's democracy for you. It was DC who vetoed having devo max (which I think a majority would have gone for) on the ballot paper and forced the scottish electorate into a straight choice of in or out.

No one could say exactly what would happen after independence, Britain doesn't even have a written constitution after all.

If you don't like things happening to you that you didn't vote for, that unfortunately is how a lot of people in Scotland feel.

I'm in Ireland, and obviously we don't have any kind of a say, but what's interesting is that I'm not sure I could find one single person here, that would be supportive of staying in the union.
Every single person I have heard talking about it, from across a wide range of backgrounds, would like to see Scottish independence.

Sp1rals, are you from the North or from Eire? Forgive me if I'm incorrectly naming your country.

wiggly I think maybe you do. And it's not as easy for people to 'just leave' - not that I want to. I don't. I love it here. My son was born here, I've lived, worked and contributed for nearly 20 years. Why should I?

I do agree talk of riots and so on are an exaggeration and scaremongering but people are concerned. I'm concerned.

I have observed that there's a tendency among some folk up here to say anti-English racism isn't a thing or doesn't really exist and anyway if it does it's only a few awful people doing it. Now it's not in your face but there is definitely an undercurrent in Scotland and the Yes campaign has (imo) cynically exploited this to their advantage while outwardly decrying it. Scotland vs Westminster anyone?

My personal experience; I've had to hide a friend on FB who has made several 'fuck off to england if you don't vote yes' comments. I've mentioned that elsewhere on MN - the comment was not aimed at me specifically but once you've read that you can't unread it.

Where are you all going to move to?

I have never said I will move. It's not particularly practicable for me. I'll be stuck with having to make the most of it.

Love that we are apparently supported by north Korea.

Yes hopefully that will put paid to the inane " ooh what will the neighbours say" comments. Particularly as those world leaders who have spoken out have not been in favour.

I am not saying anti-english sentiments don't exist, I experienced them myself at primary school when a few ratbags discovered that I was born in Cumbria, but that was nearly 40 years ago and I have not really experienced it since I left school. I hope it is being talked about more than actually happening.

I'm Scottish- English/Belarusian mum (and a dad who wasn't Scottish either), but born and raised here. Live with English DP in Caithness. I think it should require a 75% majority for independence, I fee that a close to 50/50 split will be a horrible start to a country, if half of the country are against independence in the first place. DP has had quite a few anti English comments recently too. Another thing- the BT campaign has been PAINFUL. Darling basically looks so much less passionate compared to AS, he missed so many opportunities in debates. The adverts are crap, the campaigning in general is crap. Pretty much all off Better Together campaigning has made me wince, tbh.

This 'I don't know anyone voting no' thing which keeps popping up.

Some people dont want to say they are voting no or thinking about voting no when faced with an assertive and and outspoken yes supporter who is going to try and convince them otherwise.

Let me give an example. An awful lot of my friends are very pro-independence. I mentioned that I was 'undecided' and was asked how I could consider voting 'no' and this was a betrayal and so on. I didn't fancy arguing.

Here's something else that concerns me. One of the proposed policies for iScotland is universal childcare, with 30 hours free childcare guaranteed for all families.

Now I'm fairly sure that Scottish Govt could have introduced this already if they wanted to as it's a devolved issue, not a reserved matter - which means the UK Govt don't have any control over it.

Either they aren't doing it now because they can't afford to...in which case, how are they going to afford it if if we get iScotland (with all associated costs)? The alternative scenario is that they can afford it and are choosing not to implement the policy because it's a way of bribing lower and middle income voters.

If devo max was on the ballot paper, would that not cause a three way question and split the no vote. Surely it had to be a yes/no vote?

Can I just add - I think the SNP have done a lot of good things. I have voted for them in previous elections.

I'm just not convinced Independence is a good thing. It's just such a big deal and there's no going back.

flippinada, that isn't the case for me. I respect the political opinion of others, if a person told me they were a No voter, I might ask why to understand more about it, because it's a viewpoint I don't understand, but I wouldn't belittle their opinion. For a start, as you've just illustrated, it isn't likely to change anyone's mind if you hector them.

In response to your point about saying you are Yes when you are voting No, you can usually tell if someone isn't really voting Yes, as genuine supporters are eager to discuss what iScotland will be like, and what they would like to see. Anyone who isn't genuine obviously wouldn't start a conversation about how great it is!

I know it is hard to understand when you seem to have 'pockets' of one opinion. I struggle to comprehend how the vote can be so close when I don't know a single No voter, but they are obviously out there, just not where I live.

I also don't understand your point about childcare- provision has already been increased as my ds2 gets more hours than my elder children did, and it has been increased this year. They have had to recruit over 50 childcare providers in my local area and have struggled to find enough quality candidates, so it is possible the phased introduction of 30 hours might reflect the fact that it complex to provide quality care and education, not that this is being used as a bargaining tool.

You're right that the childcare provision is being increased, the Children and Young People (Scotland) Act 2014 was passed with Royal Assent in March 2014 and it's being undertaken as part of that.

The commitment for universal childcare is something seperate. This from the white paper (which is available online here

"In an independent Scotland, this Government would develop a universal system of high quality early learning and childcare for children from the age of one to when they enter school.

We will:

in our first budget: provide 600 hours of childcare to around half of Scotland's two year olds. Those whose parents receive working tax credit or child tax credit will benefit
by the end of the first Parliament: ensure that all three and four year olds and vulnerable two year olds will be entitled to 1,140 hours of childcare a year (the same amount of time as children spend in primary school)
by the end of the second Parliament: ensure that all children from one to school age will be entitled to 1,140 hours of childcare per year"

It sounds great. But HOW are they going to do it?

But what say do you want, what exactly would the vote be on?

On whether we want the political Union of England and Wales, and Scotland to be split of course.

I can't believe the fate of the entire UK could be decided by a Yes vote being returned by 50.2% of Scottish voters.

I agree that groups of people who are like-minded and share similar views will likely congregate together. The friends I'm referring to are very passionately pro-independence, they feell very strongly about it (which I do understand). It's just a shame I can't have a proper discussion with them but then that's universal to politics, isn't it?

I don't mean to imply that anti- english racism is endemic and universal and all Scottish people feel that way. I don't think they do and I don't think it is..but it does exist and that needs to be acknowledged.

Do any yes supporters have any comments on Salmond's out right lie during one of the debates with Darling? Darling pointed out joining the EU will involve using the Euro (and of course meeting the criteria for using the Euro which an independent Scotland would not)

Salmond said that was not true. It is.

Why are you so blithely unconcerned that this man will say anything to get what he wants. And lying about the EU position goes way beyond any of the usual mps' dodgy promises.

I can't believe the fate of the entire UK could be decided by a Yes vote being returned by 50.2% of Scottish voters.

Frightening isn't it. Especially given the posters on here who think no price is too high, no damage too great as long as they are independent.

flippinada

This might be better suited to the Indyref thread but I suspect that it's all a matter of Civil Service Speak. They talk in the first instance about providing and then slip seamlessly into ensuring entitlement. That latter is very different: it could end up meaning that they'll provide the funding if you manage to find yourself a place and if you qualify.

I'd be proud to have written that.

"On whether we want the political Union of England and Wales, and Scotland to be split of course.

I can't believe the fate of the entire UK could be decided by a Yes vote being returned by 50.2% of Scottish voters."

So do you want to be able to control another country?

I've not really experienced any awful tension or behaviour between the camps.

It's all been pretty good natured apart from a few isolated incidents.

Worse happens on match days in Edinburgh and glasgow

Oh yes, I know about civil service speak - will check out the indyref thread. Apologies for going o/t everyone.

I think the childcare thing is an SNP policy so really it depends who, in the event of a Yes vote, wins the subsequent election.