To not understand why people hate David Cameron and the Conservative Party?

[SuperWifeANDMum]

Just that really.

I am a Conservative voter.

PM Cameron has disappointed me in some ways such as his lax approach to curbing immigration, deporting foreign criminals and addressing the alarming benefit culture but he has implemented a fair few positive changes.

For example:

Reducing our Debt.
Introducing Bedroom Tax.
Cutting corporation tax.
Frozen Council Tax.

Of you vote labour, why?

I am deeply concerned at the thought of another Labour government next election.

OP are you really so deluded and clueless? The Bedroom Tax for example has been a complete disaster, designed to appeal to the Tory masses - except where are all the smaller council properties people with spare bedrooms are meant to move to? They don't exist. So people have to pay this "tax" out if an already small benefit and plunge deeper into poverty or move into private rental accomodation - which is more expensive and then end up claiming more housing benefit - where's the sense in that!

Rightly or wrongly why do you think large sections of Scottish people are wanting independence so they don't have to have a Tory Government every again? But you wouldn't know if you've never suffered because of their policies.

the combination of your username and the tone of your OP lead me to believe that you are either on a complete wind-up, or you are very, very new to MN.

Good luck with this thread. I'm sure you will have a blast and make lots of friends.

Two ladies I don't hate him because he's posh and rich, I don't know anyone who thinks like that, it's about who he is, what he represents and what he does.

Hi OP - I'm up for a debate :-). I'm a lifelong Labourite and I do despise the Tory party (while still managing to have Tory friends - why is your social circle so limited? Not a criticism but something for you to think about. It's good to be exposed to a wide range of views and experiences and people).

To start - bedroom tax.

I actually agree that the limited remaining stocks of social housing should not be wasted by underoccupancy.

Can you explain to me please how the bedroom tax tackles that issue? How does it in any way connect to preventing underoccupancy?

Bearing in mind that
a) Many social housing tenants are not on housing benefit, therefore this does not effect them even if they are one person living in a 6 bed house. So no prevention of underoccupancy in many social housing households.

b) How does cutting the housing benefit move them out of that property? Where are they supposed to go? The tax is not tied in to any scheme to provide alternative, smaller social housing for them. Why should they be forced to get out of the social housing system altogether because their circumstances have changed? Why do you think everyone can afford to take on a private tenancy instead (costs a lot) and the majority of private sector landlords don't accept housing benefit tenants. Then there's the insecurity and disruption of probable continual moves and the effect of that on children etc. How exactly does a financial penalty on people who cannot control where they live, stop underoccupancy?

I underoccupied a 3 bed council maisonette for many years. I lived there alone. I wanted to move to a smaller property. The waiting list for that was 11 years.

The social housing system is broken. Penalising those who are forced to live within it, is inhumane.

n response to the original poster, I am a lifelong Conservative and find it hard to understand the irrational hatred some people direct towards the Party.
Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost, I found the wording, if not the sentiments, of your post deeply offensive).

Unlike OP I know few Conservative supporters in the relatively affluent area where I now live; most inhabitants regard themselves as deeply liberal but are actually champagne socialists. Few have ever lived or worked in a Labour constituency or known economic hardship or job loss. I grew up and lived and worked for the first half of my life in a deprived, heavily industrialised town with a drive to self-improvement: there was strong Tory support, generated partly by the damage the unions, supported by Labour, were wreaking amongst local industry.
I support Conservatives because I believe they create a strong economy whereas Labour ruins it each and every time. The bedroom tax is unwieldy mainly because so many smaller properties are occupied by single, unmarried women who have never worked, and their children, and yes I do have personal experience of too many cases of intelligent girls who have deliberately pursued this choice rather than work for a living.
Of course there are Conservative policies I do not agree with; I think Michael Gove has done untold damage to education through his introduction of Academies and Free schools, and was glad to see him go, (well done Cameron) and I think genuinely disabled people and their families need far more support than they are receiving. But George Osborne has turned the economy round, by holding the line. The jibes about rich boys from privileged backgrounds apply across all parties, but they have all benefited from a good education and are using it in public service.
What I really cannot comprehend is the bitter hatred still directed towards Margaret Thatcher, whilst the legacy of Tony Blair, and the amassing of his enormous fortune is completely ignored.

I agree with much of that Goblin

I hated Blair too, if that helps.

OP, have you actually done any research into these things as opposed to accepting uncritically what the Mail/Telegraph tells you? When you trot out the words "alarming benefit culture" have you looked into the details? Did you know, for instance, that the greatest proportion of the benefits bill is accounted for by pensions? And that a hefty proportion is tax credits paid to working people - i.e. the government subsidising business owners who pay very poor salaries? Have you investigated, by way of comparison, the sums the Treasury loses by way of tax dodging?

And how on earth can you vote for a government which is constantly throwing billions of pounds of public money at its friends? Do you really find it acceptable that G4S is still getting government contracts after the Olympics mess, the overcharging scandal and numerous other failures? Have you looked at how many Academy disasters there have been, all government funded? Were you happy with Atos being paid millions for doing their job utterly incompetently with the result that dying people were deprived of financial support because Atos declared them able to work?

Much of what they do is cynical and populist, designed to appeal to Mail readers. The Bedroom Tax, for instance, has not saved one penny, because - as the government was repeatedly told - we don't have the housing stock to make it work without moving people to more expensive private rental property. And look at what they are having to throw at the court system to compensate for the fact that it costs way more to deal with litigants in person than we spent previously on legal aid.

How does someone never meet anyone who doesn't vote the same way as they do? How insular

OP I really hope that you are reading this thread.

Bedroom tax - my neighbour has to pay it on her 3 bedroom house, where she lives with her 2 teenage daughters. Because DC says the 2 girls shouldn't have a bedroom each, they should cram into the same one. They were born here and all their family live in the street. No alternative housing has been offered, or is available.

I have to pay the bedroom tax because one of my DCs is at university. I have been trying to move to a smaller property for eighteen months, but nothing is available. I'm not over occupying deliberately, there is nowhere to go and I'm sorry but I'm not about to give up my HA tenancy and go private rental as this would send us into poverty.

Do you still think it's such a great idea?
Actually I don't think that you are real.

anyone who can like a government that targets the most vulnerable, should really take a long hard look at them selves.

I hate scameron

I don't hate David Cameron because he's rich or went to Eton. I hate vapid, self-serving, insincere bigots who fail to empathise with others. I have no idea what genuine opinions Cameron holds. He bends with the wind. If your lifestyle is supplemented from your inheritance from Daddy's Cayman Islands stash, I can't see how you would be in anyway able to empathise with a diabetic man who dies because they can't afford food after being sanctioned by the DWP.

There is this presumption from some Tories that everyone is out for themselves so they cannot comprehend why people would want others to receive benefits or support, despite not needing it themselves. They assume the same self interest is in everyone so if people claim benefits they do it because they can and to amass money not because they need to in order to survive.

I have lost track of the amount of times a Tory has said to me 'Well, you wouldn't want to pay more tax, would you?' Yes! If it was spent on improving education, health and support for the vulnerable. Yes, I would!
There is also the presumption that socialists want most people brought down to a lower level rather than poorer people being raised up to a better level.

A myopic viewpoint of 'we own our houses' sums it up for me. WTF do you know about benefit 'culture' then?

I must say Labour have done an appalling job in challenging all the BS the ConDems have come out with about the economy and benefits claimants but then they don't have the media power or funding the Tories have.

I'm pretty sure ConDems have borrowed more than the Labour government ever did, so the debt hasn't been reduced at all, it's worse.

Deliberate, obvious attempts to brain wash the next generation by eliminating critical analysis from the curriculum. Even the Telegraph couldn't put a shine on it.

Military cuts in time of global instability indicates profound incompetence. Hiding unemployment behind zero hour contacts indicates profound, horrific, economically crippling mendacity.

So bedroom tax..the Conservatives allowed the selling off of social housing so the housing available is inadequate for the need, where are people supposed to go? You, because you are lucky, have managed to buy your family home, I, because I am 'unlucky' needed social housing, but I have lived in my house for 18 years and it is very much a family home too, but I should move as soon as one of my children leaves because I have no emotional ties to the house at all? My mother lived in a 2 bedroom house while my stepdad was alive because he needed round the clock care, she had lived there 20 years, but as soon as he was gone, they moved her to a boxy flat where she knew no-one and resulted in her having a breakdown through isolation..yep, well done Mr Cameron

I hate them for every reason stated above.

I hate them for completely forgetting that we have teenagers and young people in this country. They should not be saddled with so much debt when they leave university. They should not be told they won't get any housing benefit until they are 25. They could have been tax payers for 9 years by then.

I hate them for making so many public servants redundant, thus causing the ones who left to work the jobs of more than one person.

I hate them for cutting our Armed Forces back to the bare bones of its arse. I hate them for not providing all the basic kit to the recruits when they sign up and each pay day for the first few months they are paying out to buy their own. I hate them because they don't even have enough boots to go round despite not having enough recruits to fill the places.

I hate them because they don't give a shit about the tax avoidance and won't do anything to close the loopholes they'd rather blame the "scroungers" and stigmatise them.

I hate them because they are so out of touch with the real people in this country that they haven't got a clue what they are doing to us so they couldn't care if they tried.

I think all the main parties are as bad as each other, I vote for my best local representative as in my position of homeowner not on benefits and not using the education system, that is the most likely thing to affect me.

One thing I've always wondered about bedroom tax etc but not knowing anyone affected (to ask, or to know the ins and outs so apologies if there is an obvious answer) is why 2 or 3 single people/couples don't/can't form a house share. It's common amongst the 'young professional' group, particularly in London area. Both my brothers (mid 20's) share through spare room rental type arrangements and have no plans to change any time soon.

I despise the Tories. I think they like to pretend everyone has life chances and being poor is an individual failure
I hate Blair too who really is a conservative himself
Labour needs to re claim what it always stood for or we are going to end up with the bloody BNP running the country

Well it's true goblin. Dirty Disgusting rapists do eat ffs while those on benefits are often left to starve. have you never read bad language on here. Also I apologised before hand. Gods knows why like.
Can you tell me what was offensive.

Twotallladies - your comment about DC 'giving something back'?! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha (shoots self in head). You are seriously deluded there.. Unless you are referring to dishing yet more out to his cronies. So says an Oxbridge grad who went to state school and sees these twits up close day to day.

The thing with the bedroom tax, sorry if this has already been said, there is no where for people to move to
If there was 1 person in a 4 bed house with a perfectly nice apartment 1/2 mile down the road then fine but it is not the case
And who wants to end up in an unregulated, expensive private sector rent with no security

People will vote for whatever is in their own interests on the whole.

Those that rely on benefits for their standard of living are going to be more likely to vote labour as they are more generous with state benefits, and those that don't claim benefits and want lower taxes are going to vote for a party that's more likely to give them that.

It's not that difficult to work out surely?

I'd be happy to pay more tax, but I don't trust any government to spend it wisely in a way that will benefit my family, so as it is I'd rather just pay less tax.

The bedroom tax is unwieldy mainly because so many smaller properties are occupied by single, unmarried women who have never worked, and their children,

I'm surprised it took so long to blame all those single mothers. Where are your statistics? What research is there that shows the bedroom tax is unwieldy mainly as a result of single mums?

So you've been fortunate never to have had to claim benefits? So have I.
I've managed to avoid being an insensitive goady fucker though.

The tories have propagated the myth the those who are poor are poor through choice. And sadly many people are buying it - as shown on this forum and elsewhere only too recently.

I can never get upset about how much is being spent on the benefit budget. In relation to spending elsewhere and the amount those in power (banks etc) receive in bonuses it is a very small amount indeed.

The bedroom tax has been an absolute disgrace. As has the assault on those who are ill or disabled and in need of benefits.