To not understand why people hate David Cameron and the Conservative Party?

[SuperWifeANDMum]

Just that really.

I am a Conservative voter.

PM Cameron has disappointed me in some ways such as his lax approach to curbing immigration, deporting foreign criminals and addressing the alarming benefit culture but he has implemented a fair few positive changes.

For example:

Reducing our Debt.
Introducing Bedroom Tax.
Cutting corporation tax.
Frozen Council Tax.

Of you vote labour, why?

I am deeply concerned at the thought of another Labour government next election.

You do realise that the amount of people fraudulently claiming benefits is far less than the likes of the Daily Mail etc would have you believe, don't you?

Yabu

I am not going to explain myself beyond the fact that he's played on stereotypes to divide sections of society. He's also done some shitty things in the name of austerity.

I was about to post on the distribution of benefits and how they mostly go towards subsidising people on lowe incomes but having just rescued one of my cats from a fox, my thoughts are now in disarray.
I will.return to this thread in the morning.

Every single Conservative government has been socially & economically incompetent. Yes, that does include Mad Maggie's showing, though she at least had some folks on her Cabinet that actually understood their jobs. You're voting for a Chancellor who failed maths and doesn't understand basic economics, like where money comes from (he probably thinks it all comes from Mummy & Daddy, if truth were told) and a Department of Work And Pensions that aims to 'make work pay' by providing private companies with vast armies of workers paid by the public. Cameron's just vapid. Have you ever heard him sensibly explain anything at all, let alone why he's now reneged on every major election commitment?

They're all thick. Sorry if this comes as a disappointment.

Garlic, They're not thick they know exactly what they're doing and its deliberate.

What they've done to disability benefits isn't about combatting abuse.

Take DLA for instance, it had by their own figures a 0.5% fraud and mistake rate and an estimated 20% underclaim rate...that is 20% more people were entitled to it than claimed it. It was awarded to people with evidence from all medical professionals involved in the claimants case.

PIP was brought in expressly to lower the number of claimants (even though those 20% weren't claiming) which means that it was designed to lower the number of claimants regardless of need and is awarded after an examination by an untrained person instead of evidence from medical professionals. Who benefits from that? It's not people with complex disabilities anyway.

The bedroom tax, a family of 4 in a 3 bedroom house had to pay that, even if they are willing to move to a smaller property...because there's no smaller houses in social housing stock for them to move to. 50% of housing benefit claimants are in work and claiming benefits because they're on a low income...they can't afford to buy or to rent anywhere else, so they're being penalised financially for having a low income.

So people either vote conservative or labour? No other options?

This surely isn't genuine?

The point is the benefit system as it is now penalises those who are in genuine need by wearing them down forcing them to reapply all the time for benefits.

Should someone terminally ill have to fill in a form to be reassessed because they aren't dead yet? Really? No. They should be left alone but the benefit system means that is not allowed, they must be reassessed. And if they are terminal and die before an appeal destitute that is considered all the better because the money saved is more important.

And looking at it from a money point of view it would actually be far far cheaper to leave people who have terminal or genetic illness that will become terminal alone rather than adding to their distress and costing a fortune in the process, it costs that for the forms to be assessed alone. Never mind medicals, appeals and tribunals.

What I really hate about the Tories is they are so self serving and dishonest. They privatise openly ( Royal Mail) or by stealth (NHS) and flog companies off to their mates. I hated Thatcher but she would never have dared to do some of the things this lot have done. How dare Scotland leave us with them.

Bedroom tax is stupid. It's ended up costing the government more in the long run.

People have moved into the private rented sector because there isn't enough council houses with one or two bedrooms.

Then they claim housing benefit for those houses, which costs more than claiming the benefit for council houses as the rent costs more.

Either that or people are just going into arrears because there is not enough houses/ flats with one/two bedrooms.

Foster carers are stopping because they aren't allowed an extra room for their foster children and so can no longer afford to do it.

Nothing to add here that hasnt't already been said except what goads me is the sense of entitlement and lack of imagination, empathy, and real world understanding the "effing Tories" (DC's own words yesterday) and their followers have. Had to cringe at your comment OP "we own our houses" which explains why you fail to understand the social and economic context which makes stupid policies like the bedroom tax so unfair. Easy to judge the poor when you are part of a privileged few who are lucky enough to earn more than one property.

The Bedroom Tax is simply a really, really bad piece of legislation. It is not about making best use of the housing stock, it is about cutting benefits for the poor. It is regressive in the sense that it is disproportionately hard on those in low paid employment so it does the opposite of encouraging people into work.

Op
If you really can't understand why people vote labour then I suggest you do some research. Look up social history and the beginnings of the labour party
I am perfectly aware why people continue to vote conservative
Its all about protecting their own inttetests

Where are all these 1 bed council flats that people are supposed to move to in order to avoid the bedroom tax? I'm genuinely curious.

Council housing was built to be homes for life you know.

I'm old enough to remember the Thatcher years and the misery she caused, and for that reason alone, I will never, ever vote Tory.

Food banks.

This is the 21st century. This is a developed world country. But there are people dependent on food banks to feed their children.

I think that says it all.

YABU
The vast majority of the welfare bill goes on paying pensions, but lizard man and his cronies wouldn't dare include pensioners in any of his programmes because the pensioners are the ones who vote.

www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jan/08/uk-benefit-welfare-spending

One reason for me...my friend, twenty years out of work due to serious mental health issues. Now in a position where he is well enough to find work and he was more than prepared to do so. Zero hours contract who are yet to offer him any work. In the meantime ll benefits stopped and no safety net in place to help him in these first difficult weeks.

The housinf benefit and council tax benefit have been suspended. He has NO income at all as no work has yet been offered.

There is no longer a back to work payment as the Govt cut that and my friend is now seriously anxious about how he is going to pay his rent, his council tax, his electric, gas, water, feed himself etc etc. oh and he doesn't drive so ends to earn money in order to take up any work as he will need bus fares etc.

If the Consrvatove Govt want to send people like my friend straight back to square one health wise then they have come up with a pretty good strategy,

He has no family either...no siblings, parents deceased, no aunts, no uncles. We are talking about an isolated and vulnerable human being who the Govt have just left to "get in with it".

This is why I HATE them with a passion.....as far as I am concerned they couldn't give a shite about the most vulnerable people in our society.

I wasn't enamoured if the Labour Govt either but we had things in place for the most vulnerable of people with them.

Then again I doubt we would have been any better had they been re-elected, New Labour/Old Tories....same fecking difference.

Oh and the spare room subsidy/bedroom tax. It is immoral to cut benefits for those who have a spare bedroom when there is no alternative accommodation to offer them. They are absolutely stuck and cannot change that situation and this Govt then penalise them for that. Hateful fecking shower....they truly are.

Incidentally I don't hate those who vote Tory, I have plenty of them among my friends, all lovely people but I don't get why they can support a political party who can cause misery to the most vulnerable of people without making some serious changes to their policies.

Spare room subsidy....also being cut from the HB of those who need that spare room for medical equipment. And despite this policy being in force for a huge length of time the Govt have done nothing to address this.

Hate em.

I don't vote Conservative because I have a belief that a society is judged on it's attitude to it's most vulnerable members and the Conservatives are keen to lay blame rather than provide solutions.
I also check out what politicians say. The Conservatives make no sense when you consider the facts.

For example: You do know what a massively tiny % of benefits goes to support working age adults? Or have you never questioned the rhetoric?

I find it shocking how some human beings are simply unable to imagine themselves being born into different circumstances or life having turned out differently for them in any way.

Best illustrated by a public school boy in a seminar I was in once, with wealthy parents and an expensive education behind him, slating 'lazy' people on benefits. No clue that they are not simply 'choosing' that 'lifestyle'.

I would be surprised if there is a single Tory MP with that kind of empathy.

What we should be furious about is high level fraud, the behaviour of the majority of the financial and commercial sector, where anything is allowed in the name of profit, the super rich, and tax avoidance. But this kind of behaviour seems to be applauded by society.

Tories have cynically manipulated stereotypes and turned vulnerable social groups against each other to Sneak through some outrageous policies.

The attitude seems to be: If you are rich and want to make more money, good on you. If you have nothing and want a little bit of money, then you are scum.

I am not a supporter, but, it always astounds me that people "hate" DC for being posh, rich, and going to Eton. As if that's a crime. He's very bright and highly educated. Why is that seen as a negative quality in a PM? I like having someone intelligent in government.

The hating him for being posh/rich is based on jealousy. Yes he was born with a silver spoon etc, but has chosen to try to give something back.

The difference is though we have actually bought our houses belle and don't claim benefits

are you fucking serious? being able to buy your own house and not claiming benefits somehow puts you in a position to be able to look down on those who rent and earn less than you?

seriously? seriously?

I am genuinely gobsmacked and incredibly depressed.

There is a lot I could say but others have said it for me.

I suspect we move in different circles.

I can however offer you some hope. If Scotland are fortunate enough to to get a YES vote next week you will be unlikely to have to worry about a future Labour government. It is people with views like yours who make me desperately hope we do.