To not understand why people hate David Cameron and the Conservative Party?

[SuperWifeANDMum]

Just that really.

I am a Conservative voter.

PM Cameron has disappointed me in some ways such as his lax approach to curbing immigration, deporting foreign criminals and addressing the alarming benefit culture but he has implemented a fair few positive changes.

For example:

Reducing our Debt.
Introducing Bedroom Tax.
Cutting corporation tax.
Frozen Council Tax.

Of you vote labour, why?

I am deeply concerned at the thought of another Labour government next election.

I'm reading this thread in small chunks due to its intense personal relevance atm, so forgive my slowness. This:

People who really need benefits will claim them on the whole. I'd have thought that the number of people who don't claim what they need is small.

I don't claim everything the CAB and support workers say I should. This is because of the strain of going through the required procedures, coupled with the knowledge "they always refuse at first". Following that refusal - which comes after the application process has made my conditions very much worse - I know I'll have to submit to further administrative procedures, more interrogations, and eventually have to take the government to court. Last time I did this, it took 19 months from application to tribunal. All this for an extra £20 a week - but, when your disposable income is less than £100 a week, that makes a lot of difference.

There are millions of people not fully claiming for the same reasons.

No one is having a go at pensioners/pensions policies as far as I can see.

What is being pointed out is that there is a misconception - not ever openly challenged by ANY of the parties btw - that feckless unemployed people are the biggest 'burden' on the welfare state.

This is simply not true and it is causing horrible divisions in our society.

I was a left leaning type until I witnessed the benefits culture first hand. Pre northern rock able bodied young people were being given flats in Hampstead to loaf around in, and that was when the economy was doing quite well so there were jobs. Of course people in need should be helped but the system does need overhauling in London anyway made no economic sense.

SteamTrains - Rather rude to address me as Lady Muck however that says more about you than me. I have already stated that I have been rather naive to the plight of some people. It would help if you read all of posts instead of the OP. I won't even address that second nonsensical comment.

Hakluyt - Sorry I should have differentiated: Colet Court and Oxford with GO. DC also attended Oxford that's where I drawing the similarities. I really didn't make myself clear. I thought rather stupidly that the poster was questioning the quality of their education when she was actually stating they enjoyed a education that most do not.

Immigration is good for economies perhaps when said immigrants come here to work. Not when they come to seek asylum then go on to claim benefits and social housing.

I have to admit I'm not big on immigration however if people want to come here and work and of course pay into the tax system and NHS then fine. What I really want to see implemented is some kind of system where they have to either have a job lined up and have a certain amount of money in their bank account before they are granted work visas.

Tabulahrasa

Um, it'll do nothing to solve that problem as pensioners are exempt

That will be why I used the words long term. I know pensioners are exempt, and rightly so, but as they aren't expected to live forever, or even as long as those of us that still have our children living at home, eventually their larger homes will become vacant. Then the young families that move into them will move in knowing that they won't get to stay in that house for years after their children have left and they no longer need all that space.

Most people tend to have quite a few working years left in between their children being old enough to be independent, and being elderly pensioners.

Immigration is good for economies perhaps when said immigrants come here to work. Not when they come to seek asylum then go on to claim benefits and social housing.

I mean...how dare anybody want to escape persecution. Is that REALLY what you believe? How sad and how mean.

*The welfare state means that all I have to do is work my hours, pay my taxes and the national wellbeing and moral virtue of my nation is measurably improved.

And for some reason Tories oppose this. Opposition to good is what most call evil.*

YY to this

"Hakluyt - Sorry I should have differentiated: Colet Court and Oxford with GO. DC also attended Oxford that's where I drawing the similarities"

My mistake. I thought you said your husband went to school with GO and DC.

Oh, look. You did.

"my husband attended school with GO and DC".

Oh, and Colet Court is a prep school. I think you'll find that GO went up to Oxford from St Paul's.

Face it. You're rumbled.

I have to admit I'm not big on immigration

Seriously OP? There's generally a word for that. I'm an immigrant, have been all my life. Fortunately I've never been in a situation where I've had to rely on benefits but we are all only one accident, one job loss, one twist of fate away from doing so. In my line of work I've met people seeking asylum. It isn't the luxurious life the Mail and tabloids would have you believe. It's bloody hard, relying on food vouchers rather than cash and not being allowed to work even if you have the will or ability to do so. Do you really think that most people would want that sort of life? Don't you think their life in their home country must be pretty dire for them to want to escape to this?

Hakluyt actually GO attended Colet court then St Paul's then Oxford. HTH

Cariad007 I then wrote: however if people want to come here and work and of course pay into the tax system and NHS then fine.

I am entitled to my opinion. It may differ from yours but that's life.

Sorry, I've only scanned the thread but I think it might be because of all those people they've killed, you know, like David Clapson, or maybe the divide and rule blame culture of the Nazi party that they've co-opted, or the way they stole our money from Royal Mail and gave it to their pals, including Osborne's BFF. It might be because under the coalition, the UK has become the home of the richest place in NW Europe, and the home of the 10 poorest places, starkly showing up the massive inequality in our society, or maybe it's because they are so shit at representing the population they had to shoehorn a misogynous homophobe into women and equalities because there was literally nobody else to do it and they don't think it's important anyway, or maybe because during an international crisis, Cameron's response was to point at dead fish on his thirteenth holiday. Maybe it's because 70% of new NHS contracts have gone to private companies, many of whom are huge Tory donors, and it's fucking the NHS up the arse. Maybe it's because the prison service have had staff cut by a third and are now at crisis point with suicides and violence rising and people trying to slit they wrists with their own teeth or maybe it's because of the destruction of women's services that save womens' lives at the same time as vetoing a rise in shotgun licences that would stop overstretched police forces having to sub them to the tune of £17 million. Maybe it's because they've appointed 2 people to oversee the child sexual abuse enquiry who both have links with those accused of child sex abuse proving that they are, at best, incompetent. I'm not really sure.

Oh. I've thought of another one. The way they chip away at employment law and benefit rules, particularly wrt migrant workers, which has left us with an economy where employees at the bottom end of the labour market will settle for appalling pay and conditions out of fear of destitution, thus screwing with the whole labour market. I know that Osborne's only job outside of the Conservative party was as a towel folder, but even he should understand how that works.

Immigration is broadly good for the economy. Treating immigrants as sub-human is not. If migrants have no access to a safety net then they will do anything to prevent themselves from falling, including working for less than a British worker.

EVERYTHING MrSheen has just said.

It's illuminating that the OP has admitted learning about some horrid things that have been going on under their beloved Conservatives (who are the dog that wags the tail in this coalition). Admitted they have shocked her.

And then says they will continue to vote Conservative. Presumably as they want these things to continue.

Perhaps the OP can explain to us how they think voting Conservative will change the trajectory they have been shown ? Or will they vote Conservative, and just try wishing a bit harder ?

OP you are indeed entitled to your opinion.

Actually of you'd read the post by carla you would have seen that she wrote about asylum seekers trying to escape dire circumstance in their home country. What is your opinion on that?

Reading between the lines it appears to be "sod off we don't want to help you". Nice,

SuperWifeANDMum has a few mill in the bank that she didn't personally earn, so is unlikely to understand the predicament of anyone who can't get through to the end of the week without going hungry.

Of course you're entitled to your opinion OP. So is the BNP. Doesn't stop me thinking it's xenophobic bullshit.

superwifeandmum- "lurker I disagree completely with this council house for life attitude if you claim benefits and do not add to the economy or pay taxes. Why should people live in larger houses than they need at the expense of the state? People who are genuinely disabled should of course be exempt"

I assume then you have no problem with "this council house for life attitude" as long as the tenants pay tax? So it's ok for a single person to live in a four bedroom house as long as they pay tax? Your real objection is to people on benefits having a home with a spare bedroom then and nothing to do with solving the housing crisis then? That's how Cameron has painted it despite the fact we all know it's about saving a few pounds.

Council houses are there to provide a home to those who might otherwise not be able to afford one, a home, not just a house. I don't want to see people pushed out of their homes to save a few pounds. I'm lucky that I haven't been in a position where I have had to live in social housing or on benefits. I pay my taxes and have no objection to that money being spent to provide homes for those less fortunate, thank god we don't all think like you.

LurkingHusband when did I say I was still going to vote conservative?

I actually posted this:

After reading some of the posts on this thread in regards to how our most vulnerable people in society are treated I am shocked and also embarrassed I have been so very naive.

I would like to see the current government reevaluate our current benefit system and make it fairer to the people that need it most while of course ensuring that it is not open to abuse.

I genuinely had no idea how aggressive the process is to get people back to work if they have previously been signed off sick with either mental health or a disability. It's disgusting.

I won't ever vote labour however I think if conservative don't make some changes to protect our most vulnerable people I will not vote for them next election.

So read my posts properly before trying to insinuate I don't care.

GratefulHead I read that and yes of course it's tragic what is currently happening in certain countries. It does however amaze me that people are dying to come to Britain when there are plenty countries in the EU they pass before they reach Britain.

Cariad007 The BNP are vile. Please do not insinuate my views are anything like theirs.

Deepest apologies SuperWifeANDMum, it's a long and thrilling thread. Thank you for correcting me.

May I ask if you wouldn't vote Conservative, whether you would vote at all ? Because all it takes for evil to triumph is that good people do nothing.

Personally I'm sick to the back teeth of all 3 main parties. The last hope was that the LibDems would somehow hold back the nastiness, but they just joined in (tuition fees).

I'm pro-EU, so UKIP are a non-starter, which leaves the Greens, who I disagree with on a raft of things. However, on the basis you can't get 100% of what you want 100% of the time, it seems a fair deal.

My secret hope is come May 2015, there will be no two single parties that can form a majority. Meaning we might get some broader consensus politics. Because if illegal wars, and stealth eugenics are hallmarks of "strong government" I want nothing of it.

If anyone is interested, there is a petition here to call for an inquiry into the benefit sanctions that contributed to the death of David Clapson

Over a million people have had their benefits sanctioned, many for laughable reasons. Sanctions against chronically sick and disabled people have risen 580% in a year.

Is this Cameron addressing the 'alarming benefit culture' or is it a grotesque parody of government removing the money that people need to eat?

By the way, OP, the much ballyhooed bedroom tax which you are so in favour of doesn't actually save any money when you factor in eviction costs, emergency housing costs, and the wee fact that if you move from social housing to a smaller property in the private sector then the rent you can claim is actually higher that what you were previously claiming. Now, I wouldn't go so far as to suggest that forcing people into the private sector and paying high rents is a neat little trick if you happen to be a conservative MP who rents shit loads of property out, but I will say that it is ill considered, and just from a £££ pov, not even taking into consideration the shitty, pointless, punitive aspects. It's either cruel, or incompetent, or both but it's dressed up as 'being tough on scroungers' and 'protecting hard working families'.

LurkingHusband do you know what? I am completely disillusioned with all parties. I just don't think I will vote at all.

I have been incredibly shocked and upset by what some people have been through as a result of the current government. People dying because of benefits and policies that is not right in a country that is rich but then where has Labour been in all this? Why are they not pushing and pushing for a change.

I'm on the fence about Europe I was anti EU but the more I think about it I'm just not sure.

I hate Nick Clegg. He has turned his back on the promises his party made to its voters. So I would not vote LibDem.

I would like to see some concrete policies from all parties on how they are going to turn things around and stop people suffering. I would happily pay more tax if people got the care and support they needed rather than being a statistic.

SuperWifeANDMum

PLEASE, please, please use your vote. I know it's difficult. I'm sure you will have a local-issues candidate or two standing in May next year, maybe see if you agree with their views ?

If you don't vote, you just give legitimacy to whatever shower gets in. They'll - dishonestly - use your inaction as tacit support for their policies.

I have never not voted. Ever.