Indyref8

[grovel]

ItsAllGoingToBeFine, but who will be Prime Minister? Pretty unsatisfactory changing halfway through. My suggestion was that maybe Cameron, Clegg, Miliband et al agree on a team and step back themselves. It would make the end result a joint enterprise and could prevent years of feuding in rUK.

The economic signs are not good for a dependent Scotland. Pick your poison

Just picking up bits but apparently RBS, Lloyds and Clydesdale have all said they will be moving head offices if it is a yes.

I have thanks, I'll go with the stable solution for now.

Unsurprising. The establishment is out and about tonight and the single malts are a-flowing in the Private Members' Clubs near Whitehall

Will you be happy if it's a Yes vote and it turns out (as is very likely knowing a lot about finance companies and their regulations) that this isn't a scare story? Will you be satisfied when a large number of the 200,000 scots employed in financial services find themselves unemployed with no alternative roles because every other company is doing the same?

I have numerous other reasons for voting no anyway - but right now the fear I feel is very palpable. I'm an extremely cynical person, and I do not believe everything I am told. I know these companies. I believe this.

www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/devolution-will-force-firms-out-says-directors-leader-1.673794
Sound familiar?

Will you be happy if it's a Yes vote and it turns out (as is very likely knowing a lot about finance companies and their regulations) that this isn't a scare story? Will you be satisfied when a large number of the 200,000 scots employed in financial services find themselves unemployed with no alternative roles because every other company is doing the same?

Of course I wouldn't be happy about it! I'm not entirely heartless. Just as I won't be happy if there is a negative impact on me/my family. I won't, however, have any regrets.

Scotsman has just officially come out for no although their position has been blatantly obvious for months

It's not even remotely the same ItsAll. However, I'm glad you won't have any regrets.

I can't believe people care so little for others that they are content to instantly dismiss job losses on this kind of scale as acceptable and necessary for what is fast turning in to an ideological dream. Or to just claim it's nonsense. You should try being on the receiving end. It sure as shit doesn't feel like nonsense from here.

None of the practical promises or pledges are really holding up - and as the economic situation becomes clearer the wheels fall off more of them as the numbers get worse and worse.

So it now boils down to one question - how much pain is it worth to be able to say that approximately 40% of the budget isn't controlled by Westminster anymore?

No, no major surprise there. I expect the Sun will be a Yes in a few days time.

Nelson Mandela said "May your choices reflect your hopes and not your fears".

I know that Statistically has said before that people have different perceptions of risk and the long term reward and I respect her choice as the right thing for her. However, I choose to go with my hopes

You can't really compare the two. Devolution never ran the risk of disruption anywhere near what Scottish finance is facing if there's a Yes vote. No debate about currency or changes in legislation. Also that was the director general of the Institute of Directors making those comments- no harm to him, but hardly the same as Credit Suisse, JP Morgan, et al, plus the various firms stating they are moving en masse if this happens.

Great you'd have no regrets, but unfortunately that's not going to put food on the table.

Statistically you're doing a great job.

I'm more and more puzzled by some of the Yes posters now saying they accept there will be job losses, lack of financial stability, the going will be tough for a generation but "it will all be worth it"

I hope, for your sake, that you're right. Cos your hopes won't feed my child. I hope they are enough to feed yours.

Will you be happy if it's a Yes vote and it turns out (as is very likely knowing a lot about finance companies and their regulations) that this isn't a scare story? Will you be satisfied when a large number of the 200,000 scots employed in financial services find themselves unemployed with no alternative roles because every other company is doing the same?

I real feel for you Statistically and all the others who are certain they will be negatively impacted here :-( I genuinely do feel empathy for you as an individual (can you tell there is a "but" coming?) But, this vote is about independence for a country. That is way bigger than any individual or even a particular sector of industry. A Yes vote is going to hurt a lot of people, but I feel in the longer term a No would hurt a lot more.

I feel really bad and guilty about the pain on this thread, but I have to do what I think is right :-(

And with that, good night all

Nelson Mandela said "May your choices reflect your hopes and not your fears"

Is there an equivalent of Godwin's law for dragging Mandela in to a thread?

But if you insist I hope there is a no vote and I hope the Union is not broken up.

But, this vote is about independence for a country. That is way bigger than any individual or even a particular sector of industry. A Yes vote is going to hurt a lot of people, but I feel in the longer term a No would hurt a lot more.

You'd think from that statement Scotland had indeed been oppressed in a way similar as the black majority in South Africa. Your comment is actually unarguable against, not because I agree with a word of it but there's nothing anything one could say which you would accept.

That is way bigger than any individual or even a particular sector of industry. A Yes vote is going to hurt a lot of people, but I feel in the longer term a No would hurt a lot more

How big does it have to get before it stops being worth it? What do you think is going to be so much better? These awful austerity cuts are not a patch on what will have to be implemented if it's a YES. As the figures above show, they haven't even CUT spending overall. This isn't a few years of pain. Read what Credit Suisse are saying "a deep and prolonged recession". At the end of which you'll have dwindling oil which won't have been invested in properly because of the recession, you'll find one of the largest most skilled industries in the country is pretty much wiped out, and the economy will be vastly smaller and not able to support the socialist state you desire.

But none of that matters. Cos you'll be "free".

We all know about oil money not being invested properly.

I am South Aftican born. We left South Africa because of apartheid. I was brought up to believe that politics is important as it does^ impact on people's everyday lives. I come from the one area of South Africa that voted against* the change to the constitution to enfranchise the blacks.

I think it is perfectly appropriate to quote Mandela.

Oooh, are we doing quotes now? Because I have one-

"You can have your own opinions, but you can't have your own facts." Ricky Gervais

Right now all the facts and predictions from international bodies and employers are pointing towards this being a very bad idea. How many people have to suffer, how many families have to be pushed under the breadline before it's no-longer "right"?

The odd thing is Statwe have moved on from yes supporters telling you that you are a naysayer with your made up statistics and it'll all be fine, to what seems to be a grudging acceptance that you do know what you are talking about.

Nevertheless , it's still all worth it. What "it" might be is a mystery.

Yup. We aren't going to be able to invest any of it now though. We need every penny of it, and then we still have a deficit.

"It" isn't a mystery. It is the opportunity to get the government the majority of the people of Scotland vote for, every single election.

Pretty trying to link Scotland with the situation of apartheid South Africa is insulting to those who suffered and fought and struggled under that regime.

Thanks for the sympathy. Sadly it doesn't help me deal with the fact that my husband, potentially my mother in law and some of my friends are prepared to vote my job south of the border. And lots of others. But for the moment it feels very personal and I have no idea how to move on from this.