To think that teachers need more training for coping with violent/ SEN children

[ReallyTired]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-29111528

Clearly a distress child should not have been locked in a room. However I can see how it could have happened. I feel that better training could have helped these teachers deal with a diffciult situation better.

For example training teachers in how to restrain a child safely, descalation techniques and improving communication skills would help. A school always has the option of calling the police for an out of control child.

Oh, DS is and was held responsible for his own actions of course. He knew then and knows now that violence is never acceptable, nor are bad words. And he has severe and complex disabilities, but if an adult is setting him off, then they deal with it.

As a parent of a child with ASD, I do not think a child that is violent due to special needs or not should not be in mainstream school, I have seen what can happen and it isn't fair on anyone.
I also wish people would realise that children with ASD are not all violent.
I have spoken to many people that all seem to think that ASD means violent and then seem shocked that my child is very gentle and has never so much as pushed another child.

Sorry, it was supposed to say that they should not be in mainstream school

Absolutely LL; most children I have taught with ASD have been absolutely delightful and prone to anxiety rather than violence.

I think that teachers definitely need more training, but also that parents expectations of teachers need to be realistic.

I teach in a secondary boys school, and today I taught 124 students, of whom 14 had some sort of SEN, 20 were a+t in a variety of areas, 10 were pupil premium students and be entitled to extra assistance, 12 had weak literacy and 9 weak numeracy. Trying to remember all of the needs of each pupil can be done, but it isn't easy and people make mistakes, especially in the first few weeks of school where you are getting to know each student.

I would personally like to be properly trained in de-escalation techniques, but I do think that blaming the teacher for the pupil's behaviour isn't always fair.

Parents will tell teachers what triggers are. They will.

Sorry, but no. Not always.

Not with the child I worked with.

His mother didn't KNOW what his triggers were. His previous school didn't either (what with he spent more time excluded from school than in school).

It took a year before we really got to know him well. On the plus side, the last year he was with us there were no meltdowns and no exclusions (for a child who the local SEN advisor said wouldn't stay in mainstream for 6 weeks - and yes, it was a mainstream school).

ok can i ask those with children with SEN a ??

im a little confused as to the general feeling of SEN children in mainstream school i cant quite work out what the majority want

do you prefer your DC to be in mainstream school or would you prefer a specialist school if it was avaliable

i know places in some specialist school can be hard to get,but i assumed that most wanted their DC in mainstream but im not so sure

sorry if ive worded it badly,i dont have much experience in this but am curious as to your preference if you could wave a magic wand

thanks

I think it depends on the child, ilovec.

I have 2 sons with SEN (Aspergers/ADHD), and I don't think a standard Special School would have been right for either of them. Most special schools seem to either deal with children with very specific difficulties, or are for children with severe learning difficulties. If there was a Special School for bright children with ASD, who need a different way of learning and a calm environment, but also are able to access a typical education, then I would probably have been queued up at the door begging for a place.

It really isn't hard to avoid triggers but some teachers just can't be arsed.

I disagree that it isn't hard to avoid triggers, at least not all of the time.

There was a situation at my ds's primary school where once child who had relatively mild ASD was triggered into very disruptive behaviour because of another child who had SN making small noises and involuntary movements. The child with ASD was very sensitive to sound and distractions, and neither child could move classes as it was a small one form entry school. There was very little the teacher could do, and in the end one of the children left the school after a very difficult year.

I know these situations probably aren't common, but occasionally, triggers cannot be avoided.

ilove
It depends on the child. Some children with SEN do well in ms and some don't. There isn't really a general consensus because every child is different.

My son is bright but has a complex ASD with acute sensory processing difficulties. He isn't eligible for the maintained ss because he doesn't have a LD.
He goes to an independent special school which can meet all of his needs, but obviously this is expensive for the LA who have a duty to keep costs down as much as possible.
I would have liked DS to be in his ss a long time ago (so would his previous HT!) but the LA were reluctant because of the cost.

thanks for replys

i does seem that there are lots of differrent things to consider,must be very stressful for all involved

i suppose specialist schools must be very expensive to run vs mainstream

"violent/ SEN"

And somehow the "/" makes that an acceptable juxtaposition does it OP?

Let's try a few more.

Hysterical/female.

Criminal/BME

Scrounger/immigrant

Nope. Really not working for me.

In my experience of 16 years teaching violence in the classroom is generally spontaneous and more often children you would not expect it from. Usually when pupils fight with another. Most pupils with a record of violence will be known to the teacher.

The fees are upwards of £50,000 per year mainly due to the high adult:pupil ratio. It is not cheap for the LEA's but most seem to prefer this option than funding their own school for some reason. The ridiculous thing is that despite the high fees none of the specialist schools can offer the same academic opportunities as mainstream. We have opted for specialist because we felt that the ds's emotional well being was more of a priority than strings of GCSE's but it would have been nice to have both as despite their high levels of anxiety they are academically able.

ilove - it totally depends on the child and the school. Both of mine have started off in our caring and inclusive village primary. DS1, although bright, couldn't cope and it was making him ill and, after the usual dance with the LA, he's now in specialist provision. Independent and an hour away, as the LA have nothing for him.

DS2 is in year 4, has a lovely and very diligent 1:1 and, despite being so delayed that he's not yet accessing the national curriculum, is making good progress and happy there. I will have to move him to specialist provision for secondary, but we have a few more options than we did for DS1. He's not as anxious as his brother, is more flexible than his brother and is a lot less prone to meltdowns than his brother (unless he's hungry, then all gloves are off, though he's more likely to emit a bloodcurdling scream!) He's also a lot more sociable than his brother and while he will (without fuss) take himself somewhere quiet, when he needs it, he's actually interested in what other children are doing.

At home's another story. Unfortunately, DS2 happens to be one of DS1's triggers.

So many of us with DC in expensive run-for-profit specialist provisions. It is not rocket science. The LAs (or consortia of LAs) need to fund proper state provision. The current mess is wasteful and short-sighted.

BTW OP my DC have never been violent, despite ASCs. The conflation of the two is getting beyond wearing.

And yes, ilove - very expensive. DS1's currently in a class of 4. There's often at least one TA in the class with the teacher. his class will grow through the year, as year 5s start to come in (he's year 6 and the school starts at year 5) and there will be more TAs to help settle the new children.

Transport costs can also be high, as many children have to travel some distance to access a suitable school.

The LA special schools are a lot cheaper and the base cost of a place is less than mainstream + 1:1, but that's in a class of 10-12 with 2-3 adults. The classes I've seen have been far from the quiet calm that a highly anxious child with ASD needs, but the ASD classes at one of the SS I visited aren't pitched at bright, high functioning kids.

Surely it's what is beneficial for everyone involved. Some children with SEN thrive in a ms setting, others will struggle terribly. These things should be judged on an individual basis not just lumping everyone in together. I do feel that a child struggling and disrupting the class shouldn't be made to carry on in a ms setting just to be seen to be inclusive. It's not beneficial for anyone concerned.

I'm a teacher and we have virtually no training in sen. We do need better training in things that really matter like this rather than training on yet another new government initiative.

No wonder the SENCO in that article was sacked, she sounds utterly incompetent.

Hurr1cane, I want to 'like' your posts.

Agree teachers need more training and on another note parents need more bloody training as well!

My 10 year old has violent meltdowns regularly and yet there is no support for us as a family at all! No advice on dealing with it, retraint technicques etc.

Social services funded training for his school but refused to train us as parents or allow the school to teach us the techniques taught to them, we are just expected to continue being physically attacked as parents and deal with it.

Lez, they can't train you as parents unfortunately because of the insurance, you aren't employed by anyone so who is responsible for keeping your training updated?

And yes, teachers should have training in dealing with violence but this should not be normalised within a mainstream setting.