To think that teachers need more training for coping with violent/ SEN children

[ReallyTired]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-29111528

Clearly a distress child should not have been locked in a room. However I can see how it could have happened. I feel that better training could have helped these teachers deal with a diffciult situation better.

For example training teachers in how to restrain a child safely, descalation techniques and improving communication skills would help. A school always has the option of calling the police for an out of control child.

[Stinkle]

My YP had no SEN as such.

They were however extremely angry and felt rejected by their parents and really struggled to keep a lid on their temper

[thedevilinside]

As the parent of a child with ASD, I would prefer him to be educated in a special school, alongside others like him. However, as he is withdraws or runs when overloaded, (ie is not violent) that option is not open to me. He has a statement and that has helped enormously, and I am hoping his school experience will be better than mine.

Speaking as someone on the spectrum myself, I know, from bitter experience, that many NT children and adults do not accept us, and it is almost always the ASD child/adult who has to change their behaviour to fit in

My ideal scenario would be a special school, educated by teachers who are on the spectrum themselves. I watched my son thrive when taught by a very direct and logical TA

[streakybacon]

Training isn’t the answer but it is part of it. Several of my son’s violent episodes while in primary school were mismanaged by teaching staff who had attended appropriate training but still had no idea how to support him. One incident arose from his sensory sensitivity escalating due to anxiety, and the teacher claimed never to have heard of sensory problems with autistic children, yet she’d been in a LA training session about it just weeks earlier. The point being, you can deliver training but if those attending aren’t interested, they won’t take it in and you’ve wasted your time. So part of the issue is having the right staff, who actually care about the children they’re working with and want to support them the best way they can.

Another issue is relationships with parents. It’s true that the majority of parents are very on the ball about their children’s triggers and how to prevent situations escalating towards meltdown, but teaching staff need to respect that parents are likely to have better insight into their child’s condition than they do and work together to meet the child’s needs. In my son’s final primary school, I took in masses of support tools that we used successfully at home to help him with anger management, self-awareness, anxiety and other problems, and the whole lot was put in a drawer and forgotten about. NOBODY read a word of it – I couldn’t understand why he was continuing to have such massive problems because I thought he was being supported appropriately, but in practice he had NO support at all.

As for restraint, my son’s school were very well aware that even the slightest touch when my son was anxious would lead to meltdown, yet still they would do so in an effort to calm him down. He would hit the roof and they ‘d end up restraining him and he too was locked in a room on his own on one occasion. Had they followed even half of the tools I’d provided for them he’d never have got to that point, but the arrogance that they knew better than I did prevailed and they destroyed him.

Teachers entering the profession should be aware that the usual practice is for children with SENs to be educated in mainstream schools. They will encounter those children and need to be prepared for them, either through their basic training or by their own research. In today’s education system it can’t be avoided and they can’t pick and choose who they support. If they don’t want to teach violent children then they need training to work appropriately with them so that they are less likely to become violent. As others have said, it really isn’t hard if you’re prepared to listen to and work with parents who know the child and what their triggers are. Proaction is the key to avoiding aggression, always.

Star also makes a good point (among many) that children with SEN are just as entitled to an education as any others, and their attendance at school should be about more than managing their behaviour. At present it seems to be about containment till they move up a year, and that’s not good enough.

IMO, the core of the problem is that the education system claims to have the resources to provide appropriate support for children with SEN in mainstream, when evidence screams that they clearly can not. We could do with a bit of honesty about how this system fails children with SENs, and the teachers who are put under enormous stress because they haven’t adequate provision to do better. Too many children are being harmed under the current system, and mine was one of them.

[LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett]

YY streaky. Times a million.

[Miggsie]

Children and adults are violent when they are unable to adequately process the emotions they are feeling.
Restraint and punishment achieve very little because if they can't process and deal with their emotions then there will be issues again and the cycle repeats.

The children/adults need to be helped to deal with their emotions and if they are overwhelmed not use violence to express themselves where possible.

Teachers need to understand the triggers but the child also needs help in dealing with their emotions long term. Unfortunately, teaching emotional wellbeing seems to be bottom of most LEA lists and they take the easier path of excluding the child or leaving the teachers to manage.

[Crusoe]

Streaky bacon wonderful post that says it all...

[Thebodyloveschocolateandwine]

My sympathy is completely with the teaching staff.

Far too many kids with major behaviour issues are in mainstream school and clearly are not having their needs met.

This benefits noone but clearly is done to save money.

It's harder to get a statement and so access money for help for a child than to fly.

[Thebodyloveschocolateandwine]

streaky totally agree with your post.

However it's far easier if a child had the statement so had the one to one and help and getting one is very difficult.

Also not all parents want to admit their child has issues in the first place.
It's just that there are so many children with SN in our schools who do not so teachers are balancing their needs against the needs of the other children.

All loose out.

[ArsenicFaceCream]

My sympathy is completely with the teaching staff.

Really?! How about with DC who are frightened when classrooms spiral out of control?

Or with DC with EBD and SEN themselves who are frightened by their own actions and lack of boundaries set for them?

Not all schools/teachers/situations are the same.

[streakybacon]

A statement is no guarantee of one-to-one, thebody - a lot of children with statements have no personal support.

[partialderivative]

When is this training to take place?

And what should be removed from a very full schedule to allow this training?

(I am not saying it is a bad idea, just that there are already a shed load of things that teachers need to be trained in)

[cricketballs]

ilove - I'm a bit late responding to your question re MS/SS but felt I needed to respond...

We had the option of MS or SS with our youngest DS. In MS he would have been in a class of 30 (with 1-1 support), but there was no way he would have been able to 1. cope socially 2. access the curriculum even with differentiation and support. We chose the SS and it has been the best decision we have ever made.

In his SS whilst he learns the core curriculum (at his pace in very small classes) he also has set times for life skills (basic living skills like ironing, making a hot drink for example), travel training etc which can not be accessed in MS.

I teach in MS secondary and there is often a student whose parents have stated that they want their child in MS and we are not meeting their needs due to the fact that at MS we have to focus on academia rather than life and there is so much that these students don't learn that they need to. For example, I have a year 9 student who we have had since the start of year 7 who needs travel training, life skills etc and we are failing him as we can't meet these needs - we are teaching him basic english, maths but not how to cope in the real world which SS specialise in

[StarlightMcKenzie]

'However it's far easier if a child had the statement so had the one to one and help and getting one is very difficult.'

Why is it difficult?

[StarlightMcKenzie]

How many statements have you applied for Thebody?

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Statements should not be applied for to compensate for the inadequate training levels of teachings staff.

[KneeQuestion]

When is this training to take place?

And what should be removed from a very full schedule to allow this training?

In the first instance, it should be part of the PGCE, it can also be part of CPD.

[KneeQuestion]

I am not saying it is a bad idea, just that there are already a shed load of things that teachers need to be trained in

SEN training is as important. Many things would be so much easier, if teachers were trained better in this area.

[Thebodyloveschocolateandwine]

starlight our small authority is horrendously underfunded unlike the hugely supported county just down the road.

We have to fight and fight for statements to get adequate staff support for children who really go need it.

Pehaps you are lucky to live in a well funded area?

Arsenic it really hurts being bitten and kicked while attempting to communicate with a child who has huge needs while desperately trying up prevent the child hurting themselves or other tiny children close by.

There are children in mainstream who are a complete and utter danger to themselves and everyone else and should not be there.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Okay, so how many statements have YOU applied for, and how many of those have been turned down?

[teacherwith2kids]

Part of the issue is that what is needed is not 'general SEN training'. it is high quality, quickly-accessible training that relates specifically to the children that you have in front of you.

One year I might need training in teaching those with a hearing impairment. Another year, ASD. Another, several specific learning difficulties - that come under the broad headings of dyslexia and dyscalculia, but present in different ways in detail in particular children.

A general 'here's how you manage children with SEN' course is no use, whenever it is delivered. Even having high-quality training for the most common mainfestations of SEN would only be scratching the surface, because they often present in different forms, combinations etc. What is needed is a three-way dialogue between experts, teachers and parents ABOUT A SPECIFIC CHILD, not 'training in generic SEN'.

[teacherwith2kids]

tarlight, our experience as a school in a 'medium funded' county, is that the 'clear cut' cases (of what used to be called Statements until September) are not an issue - a child with very high needs will get a statement. It is the children 'at the margin', where it is possible to argue that a lower level - e.g. what used to be called school Action plus - would be appropriate that there can be battles over funding.

[ArsenicFaceCream]

I'm really not sure why apportioning sympathy is the point. Some classrooms under the current arrangements are pure chaos.

Maybe the new system will be more successful than statements, but I doubt it.

The core problem is lack of cash and lack of will.

[ArsenicFaceCream]

Arsenic it really hurts being bitten and kicked while attempting to communicate with a child who has huge needs while desperately trying up prevent the child hurting themselves or other tiny children close by.

Thebody I asked for my posts to be withdrawn as they inadvertently IDed my DC.

DC (of assorted sizes) DO get injured.

Either by themselves or by others.

Others get very scared.

This should not happen in a classroom.

Classrooms are not supposed to be frightening places.

Your insistence on reserving sympathy SOLELY for teachers (who are adults with choices and training and a degree or control) is unfathomable and unpleasant.


There are children in mainstream who are a complete and utter danger to themselves and everyone else and should not be there.

You are breath-takingly patronizing.

We know that. I have said that. So have others.

It is what this thread is largely about.

Have you not RTFT?