To think that teachers need more training for coping with violent/ SEN children

[ReallyTired]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-29111528

Clearly a distress child should not have been locked in a room. However I can see how it could have happened. I feel that better training could have helped these teachers deal with a diffciult situation better.

For example training teachers in how to restrain a child safely, descalation techniques and improving communication skills would help. A school always has the option of calling the police for an out of control child.

[afterthought]

Totally agree with the training aspect. The only training I have had I have done in my own time and paid for out of my own pocket. It has cost me over a thousand pounds and a hell of a lot of time. I don't get paid any extra for it but have done it because I have a real interest in the way the brain works. I feel reasonably well equipped to deal with a range of SEN but the training I have had should be mandatory and should be completed during school time, not at weekends and holidays.

I have a child in my class who can be violent. If she kicks off, I have to keep the other children safe, her safe and any adults safe. I can see how a child came to be locked in a room. Whilst it isn't right, I think the teacher had the child's best interests in mind along with the other children - I don't think it sounds like a malicious 'lock him in a tiny cupboard' type scenario. I don't know what the right way to deal with this would be though.

[Bulbasaur]

If his teacher listened and acted on what she was being told, and avoided ds's triggers rather than making him face them over and over again, he would never have got to that point.

Right, but the problem quickly becomes you have about 20 students in a classroom. It's not always possible to avoid everyone's triggers, cater to every child's needs, and still get through the day teaching what's on the lesson plan.

Some kids need to be in special schools. Not because they should be separated, but because they have a better chance of thriving in a calmer environment with smaller class sizes.

[Hurr1cane]

It is possible to avoid everyone's triggers, in fact it's very easily done.

[horsecalledseptember]

Yes but hurr1cane, it doesn't change the fact you have a duty of care towards the other children in the room too.

I would not be happy if my child was attacked and I was told that the other child must have a horrible life. I would be angry and contact the police. I suspect most parents would.

Yes, you chose to be in an EBD school, but most mainstream schools are not set up for children becoming violent. I teach secondary and in many parts of the world the 'children' would be considered men and women, albeit young ones.

Violence is not acceptable. Lashing out is not acceptable. We cannot give the message "it's okay because of your background" - that way lies disaster. It is not acceptable, ever.

The best Heads have a zero tolerance approach to violence against staff and students and as a result, students are able to control themselves.

[gordyslovesheep]

where should violent children go then? My eldest is exceptionally bright and gifted but also prone to throwing things across the classroom and being angry

she will not get funding for specialist provision (and very little specialist provision would meet her academic needs) she has no EHCP to can not draw down the funding needed

so should she just be put on the scrap heap?

[Hurr1cane]

Well, if the teachers were trained to deal with it before it got to that point then there wouldn't be violence is the point I'm making.

Funny how I was given emergency instructions for 5 children in my class who 'regularly became violent' but never ever became violent in my classroom.

[horsecalledseptember]

Not all students who become violent have special needs.

I think your above statement is victim blaming. I presume you wouldn't dream of saying the teacher recently stabbed could have avoided that particular students triggers, so why assume every teacher who is the victim of assault did something to trigger it.

Even if they DID it does not excuse it. Ever.

Good heads understand this.

[fairgame]

They definitely need more training as it makes all the difference.

DS has ASD and while in ms he had full time 1-1 support. In his first ms school, none of the staff had any training in ASD or restraint and DS ended up hurting a member of staff and was excluded, aged 5.
We then moved areas and moved schools. At the next school he was still supported with 1-1 full time but there were about 3 members of staff who were team teach trained. This meant that DS could be safely restrained, ensuring that he and the staff were safe. Some of the staff had also been on some autism courses and had previous experience with dealing with ASD. This meant that some of DS's potential outbursts could be de-escalated.

Thankfully he is now in a special school specifically for autistic children so everybody is trained to de-escalate and safely restrain him.

[Hurr1cane]

And actually, the one thing I could not tolerate, is other children being hurt. The only reason I moved DS to special from his horrible and crappy mainstream was because he somehow managed, at age 4, to pick up a computer screen and throw it and it hit another child.

His 1:1 must have been on another planet not to get there in time.

And why did he do it? Because it was too noisy and they wouldn't let him wear his ear defenders because he'd 'look different'

Stupid teacher said that in front of the panel of professionals in the emergency meeting I called as well. Backed up by the head.

He was apparently 'given the option to quit' and took it.

Nob

[Hurr1cane]

And this is different then victim blaming because these are small children. Not yet fully functioning humans, and the teacher is the appropriate adult.

[horsecalledseptember]

In the case of four year olds yes, but teachers teach big children too; very, very big children who are capable of causing a great deal of damage to people and property.

[Hurr1cane]

When a child is a teenager it becomes a different story. Over the Age of 10 children become responsible unless they have learning disabilities.

[Fav]

It's not impossible to avoid most triggers.
Ds's main one was being kept in at break. Despite asking over and over for him not to miss breaks, she kept on doing it.

Having spoken to other parents of dc with SN, one of them has violent meltdowns because the teacher expects him to look her in the eye and stop fiddling with his fiddle toy.
Another one was often put near an open window, he found it distracting and upsetting when noise carried through. Easily solved, but the teacher refused to listen. They ended up moving school and he hasn't had one meltdown there in over two years.

My examples are probably only the tip of the iceberg, and I'm sure there are far more complicated triggers, but for those dc and my ds, triggers are easily avoided, it just takes a good teacher to listen and take on board some understanding of the individual child.

[Hurr1cane]

*legally responsible.

I have also worked with parents with a child who is a teenager and was suspended from an EBD school and was literally out of control.

She was a foster child, but they very much saw their foster children as their own.

There was nothing they could do, she hurt their other children, they were resigned that she would end up in prison. It was terribly sad for all involved.

I don't think I would cope if that was my child.

[Hurr1cane]

See I would disagree with you there fav, I wouldn't say it would take a good teacher to be able to avoid triggers, I'd say it would take a horribly bad teacher to not be able to.

[Hurr1cane]

But you're probably speaking from experience, which is very sad. It really isn't hard to avoid triggers but some teachers just can't be arsed.

I wouldn't say that I was an amazing teacher, I'm probably just average, but I make an effort to make sure all the children's needs are met as a minimum. As should be the norm.

[Oakmaiden]

I am a teacher and HAVE had training in this - but only because before training as a teacher I worked one to one with a violent child as a teaching assistant.

The teachers mostly didn't have a clue, and to be honest had another 29 children to safeguard. If the child I was with had a meltdown all other children were removed from the room and I was left to deal with it.

[Fav]

Yes I think you're right Hurr1cane :)

Last year was a very bad one for ds. His teacher this year seems very good so far.

[Oakmaiden]

It really isn't hard to avoid triggers

assuming you know what the triggers are. But to get to the situation where you know the child's triggers you have to have witnessed a few meltdowns too.

[Fav]

" I make an effort to make sure all the children's needs are met as a minimum. As should be the norm."

You see, I think that's where you sound like a very good teacher.
Plenty I have come across do the bare minimum for the children in their care.

[Beetlemilk]

The parents will usually know what the triggers are.

[Hurr1cane]

Parents will tell teachers what triggers are. They will.

It just depends if the teacher wants to listen or not.

[Bulbasaur]

Over the Age of 10 children become responsible unless they have learning disabilities.

I'm on the fence with this one. Adults even with LD's are held accountable for their actions. We would not allow a violent adult to stay in mainstream society, nor should we. We can't allow an adult who can inflict serious physical damage to lose control because someone else forgot or was distracted and didn't mind their triggers.

At some point you need to teach kids that albeit unfair, they will be held responsible for their tantrums/meltdowns. People with Asperger's are in relationships, and they know to walk away if they feel they're going to lose control. I know of a guy on the spectrum that lost his job because he walked away and a coworker followed. He melted down got verbally abusive and was fired for it. Whether he's responsible for it or not, there are very real consequence to that type of behavior. It's better to start hammering that in at a young age while they're still receptive to adult guidance.

People with PTSD have the potential to become violent very quickly, they should still be held accountable for their actions, even though it's not necessarily their fault they were triggered.

It's just, where do you draw the line?

[Hurr1cane]

And thank you fav

But I don't understand why teachers don't, even as an NQT before DS even had difficulties I spent the summer revising the SEN file and making sure I knew how to meet their needs.

I had 5 in my class as well, 5 of 30 with special needs and 2 gifted and talented. And one TA between them all. I managed it with no issues, as an NQT.

[fairgame]

Some teachers are unable to avoid all of a child's triggers.

DS's main trigger is sensory overload. The poor teaching staff had no chance when he was in a class with 27 other children and a school with over 400 children. There were no quiet spots for him to retreat to because there were no spare classrooms as the school was full.

I blame the LA for pushing so many children to stay in ms when it clearly isn't in their best interests. I had to go down the tribunal route to finally get DS out of ms. The ms HT said she couldn't meet his needs and still the LA messed around and tried all sorts of delaying tactics because ms with support was cheaper than his specialist placement.

Too much focus on saving money and everybody suffers for it.