To think that teachers need more training for coping with violent/ SEN children

[ReallyTired]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-29111528

Clearly a distress child should not have been locked in a room. However I can see how it could have happened. I feel that better training could have helped these teachers deal with a diffciult situation better.

For example training teachers in how to restrain a child safely, descalation techniques and improving communication skills would help. A school always has the option of calling the police for an out of control child.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

'it is not reasonable to expect teachers to teach themselves to become experts in a multitude of sen'

It is reasonable to expect teachers to teach themselves about the most common SENs, and when I say that I mean the actual NEED rather than the diagnosis. For example understanding sensory difficulties, communication difficulties, anxiety triggers etc. is imo absolutely essential and none difficult to grasp as a concept.

From there you need to learn about Function of behaviour and motivation and I'd say you'd have pretty much the majority of what you'd need.

None of it is rocket science, and much of it can come from the parents if you don't like reading.

[mumof6needssanity]

Yes really I agree. Ideally class sizes would be smaller so teachers and ta's could properly know and understand all of the dc in their care.

Why can teachers been trained in restraining dc and I as a parent can not? A teacher maybe caught in the middle of a meltdown some of the time I know I will be in the middle of one at least once a day. Why is it right that as a parent I can be left to get beaten up when I out myself in between my ds and my other children. I have no doubt he will break my bones one day or stab me if he is holding a knife when he has a meltdown, it is just a case of when.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

'For example one child with autism might have totally different triggers to another child with the same label.'

Of course. I remember my ds being made to give a card with a picture of a biscuit on it to someone at snack time after he had asked for a biscuit 3 times verbally, because pictures were supposed to reduce anxiety in children with his disability. What actually raised his anxiety that time was being ignored when asking 3 times and then being made to hand in a picture.

[Sunna]

Teachers might sign up to teach, but if they teach in a mainstream school then they do not get to choose which children. They must teach them all.

No, we mustn't. We have a right to a safe working environment as does any other worker. If the LEA doesn't provide adequate resources and personnel to support a habitually violent child then we have a right to refuse to teach that child, for the sake of our own safety and that of the other children. Attacks on teachers are increasing and as a society we should not tolerate this.

Most jobs require additional unpaid research/work outside to get up to speed in unchartered waters. I have no sympathy with those whinging that they haven't been trained in something so core to their job. Read a bloody book or google.

As most of us do. We have a lot of reading to do just to keep pace with the changes in education. You cannot learn how to manage and safeguard a violent child from a book. You need a practical "hands on" course delivered by people who know what they are doing.

If I were to say, "I have no sympathy with parents who whinge that schools can't manage their children when they can't manage them at home. It's a parent's job to deliver a child to school ready to be educated and knowing how to behave acceptably," then I would rightly be told it isn't that easy and I was being unfair and stupid. I wouldn't tell them to read a bloody book and sort it out.

I worked in special education for most of my career and had some narrow escapes from unexpected meltdowns. I did have training but I'm glad I'm retired, frankly, because I'm told by former colleagues that violence is on the increase. If a child is threatening a teacher with violence and the only way to stay safe and keep the other children safe is to lock him/her in a cupboard, then I don't see that there's any other option.

I found my work very rewarding as well as challenging but could see why one teacher announced one playtime that he didn't get paid enough to put up with "this shit". And he left for mainstream at the end of term.

Of course all children have a right to an education but we have to put more money, training and people in to make sure they get it. The situation in some schools currently is unsafe for teachers and all children.

[soapboxqueen]

If one child was coming with x condition or label, doing some research about the condition would be easy. Using that knowledge to implement successful classroom strategies that are effective may be possible without specialist support but just as likely will be pot luck and waste an awful lot of time trying to find the best solutions.

However doing that with 10 or 15 children is impossible without specialist support. Especially when their needs may be conflicting or only understood on a basic level.

Restraint and de-escaltion techniques need to be taught and demonstrated.

I'm not suggesting that any professional should rest on their laurels or just shrug their shoulders. However flippently telling people to read a book or Google very complex issues is silly.

[mumof6needssanity]

Soap I agree restraint and de-escalation should be taught and demonstrated to teachers but I want it available to me as a parent too. Is that wrong?

[Fav]

I went on a course about children with communication difficulties, aimed at teachers.
The information passed across was sketchy at best, and certainly didn't give any insight into managing these children, or making their school lives easier.

The teachers all left with a certificate to prove they knew all about children with communication difficulties.

I have learnt more in half an hour browsing through MNSN or google.

Perhaps there does need to be a shake up in training. The emphasis of this course (I'm aware that this was just one course, I'm not tarring all with the same brush) was to gain a certificate, rather than learning more about the children being taught.

[soapboxqueen]

I agree with you mumof6. I have needed every ounce of experience as a teacher and limited sen training I have had to deal with my son. I don't know what people do who don't have that.

From what I gather the limited services available for patches in my area do not offer concrete support or training but are more like antenatal groups in that you meet people in a similar situations.

I agree with a previous post in that I think people assume behaviour problems means bad parenting so therefore are undeserving of help.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

'Teachers might sign up to teach, but if they teach in a mainstream school then they do not get to choose which children. They must teach them all.

No, we mustn't. We have a right to a safe working environment as does any other worker. If the LEA doesn't provide adequate resources and personnel to support a habitually violent child then we have a right to refuse to teach that child, for the sake of our own safety and that of the other children. Attacks on teachers are increasing and as a society we should not tolerate this.'

Who said anything about not having a right to a safe environment? As a teacher in a state mainstream, your job is to teach every child who attends, whatever their difficulties.

If your environment is unsafe through lack of resources from the LA, then why is it that child's fault? Why is it their life chances that are scuppered? Why haven't you raised the issue with those who are responsible for your safety and for the child's learning to ensure that it can happen safely?

No-one said anything about teachers being expected to tolerate violence. I would expect a teacher to make a big fuss in the strongest terms if that is what he/she thought was expected of him/her. But don't ever blame the child for their lack of provision, or their neglect thus far.

[ouryve]

freeman if you suspect that school are not recording serious incidents, regarding your child, and you need that record, then as soon as possible after any verbal contact with the school, following an incident, write down your understanding of events and email it or deliver it to the school and ask them to verify that it's accurate.

And if you have the energy, between parenting your DD and handling the school and everything else, get in touch with OFSTED via (IIRC) ParentView. OFSTED don't take kindly to lack of recording of incidents, particularly where SN are involved. Among the myriad problems in a local SS, this is one of the things that OFSTED failed them for.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

'I went on a course about children with communication difficulties, aimed at teachers.The information passed across was sketchy at best, and certainly didn't give any insight into managing these children, or making their school lives easier.'

I would like to believe that was the same course that I went on, just so I could live in hope that it wasn't rife.

The questionnaire at the end asked how confident people were at managing children with ASD. Nothing anywhere about actually educating them. Whole course was depressingly miserable regarding expectations of these kids. It was like the main outcome of the course was to convince the teachers that the most successful result of having a child with these difficulties was to be able to contain them somehow without calling the LA in.

[soapboxqueen]

Fav I think alot of training ends up like this. Teachers aren't really impressed with it either as they are still left with a child they need to support and no extra knowledge or support to do it.

It would be far more useful to have specialists to come in to school to show how to support an individual child.

[Aeroflotgirl]

I am glad at my dd ss she is being educated not contained or managed

[ouryve]

Boney Trouble at School by Ross Greene would help you to work on identifying triggers and work with a child to avoid them, together. For example, if a child regularly plays up when writing in Literacy, you can learn, as far as the child can communicate to you, what the problem is (it may be something like an achy wrist aching all the more because the child struggles with composing prose). If you and the child can spot the signs of discomfort before it reaches crisis point, then you can negotiate a means of starting on a comfort break (eg you suddenly realise that everyone needs something on their desk and the child would be the person to deliver it, or else the child gives you a sign that they need an out and you respond to that.)

[Sunna]

As a teacher in a state mainstream, your job is to teach every child who attends, whatever their difficulties.

Again, no it isn't. Some children cannot be taught or supported in mainstream for a variety of reasons. And nowhere did I say it was the child's fault, please don't put words into my mouth.

A violent child can be as much a danger to him/herself as to the other children and staff. Some cannot be managed in mainstream no matter what resources are put in - their triggers are to do with crowds and noise. Unavoidable in mainstream.

[BoneyBackJefferson]

starlight and Fav

I like most teachers I know research in to the SEN pupils that we have, we listen to the parents, SENCO, spend our own money and time on books, resources (in one case stationary) and courses all in order to allow the pupils to have a fair chance at learning (I consider myself lucky to be surrounded by like minded colleagues)

But I cannot foresee every possibly that arises, meltdowns and violent behaviour are not always triggered by "the inadequacy of subsequent ignorant teachers of SEN." Schools are areas that have a multitude of pupils, attitudes and ethos.

I have seen children meltdown because someone borrowed their pen or because another child patted them on the back. As was mentioned up thread a child with sensory issues could be in a class with a child that makes random noises (not always SEN).

[freemanbatch]

thanks ouryve but its not the school who aren't recording things, I saw the great big file just this morning and was told once again by the head teacher that she had spent over an hour taking the social worker who is writing the court reports through all the paperwork. The social worker has simply decided to report that the school state no change we don't know why but that's what she's decided to do.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

'I have seen children meltdown because someone borrowed their pen or because another child patted them on the back.'

And that was the first and only time they had a meltdown in their whole school career?

There was nothing on file about them? There was no IEP in place to enable them to develop skills at handling their difficulties and their triggers?

[smokepole]

Thank God the violent Incident in Malvern today did not result in any 'Deaths'. I think it very unlikely that the boy had not previously committed violent actions or issued threats to either staff or other pupils. The boy has some serious problems doing that at 13, surely the boy cannot be let back in to a mainstream schooling environment. If the boy is let back in to a mainstream environment ,it would a green light to 'seriously' injure a pupil/teacher or worse next time.

[BoneyBackJefferson]

ouryve

I have "lost at school" by Dr Ross W Greene.

[whois]

I feel for teachers.

Normal teachers in mainstream schools shouldn't be expected to be experts in SN while trying to teach a full class of students. They shouldn't have to regularly deal violence. They shouldn't have to deal with regular disruption.

They are their to teach. And teach huge classes.

God knows how they do it. Especially considering they are meant to be so lazy, what with all those long holidays and leaving at 3.30 every day.

[BoneyBackJefferson]

StarlightMcKenzie

"And that was the first and only time they had a meltdown in their whole school career?

There was nothing on file about them? There was no IEP in place to enable them to develop skills at handling their difficulties and their triggers?"

No it wasn't and yes there was, my point is that "normal" actions can also set off a meltdown, things that children do with no thought or malice that take a fraction of a second can be implemental in meltdowns and violence.

I can and do control my interactions with SEN pupils in line with PSS. IEPs etc. I build working relationships with the pupils, use modulated vocal techniques, time outs, bribes, make deals with other members of staff so that pupils have a "bolt hole" a "safe place" where they can go at anytime.

But what I am saying is that some times, even when all the procedures are in place, systems are correct, sometimes things happen and meltdowns occur.

[Hurr1cane]

"I've seen children meltdown because someone borrowed their pen or patted them on the back"

Probably because they were already at high levels of anxiety and this tipped them over the edge.

If you meet their needs, lower their anxiety and make them happy as is their right as human beings, then they're less likely to meltdown, the same as the rest of us. They aren't actually that different you know.