IndyRef 7

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

...

but the people who will be running the show are those on the streets telling the english cunts to go home

I'm sorry but what the actual fuck?

And yes voters are the deluded ones? The sheep? Yet you can make inane comments like that and get applauded for it?

I fucking despair. Again.

itsall poor show. You actually did a trawl to find something

Sadly, no trawling required. If you follow a variety of people this sort of thing pops up with depressing regularity. Oddly, although (as I am a Yes) I follow many more Yes people, the vast majority of the abuse seems to come from the No side.

However, I do not presume to interpret this as anyone who votes no is bigot.

Oddeverybody knows there are idiots and racists on both sides. The yes side could give you chapter and verse about unpleasant experiences by those on the no side.
You are not going to convince anyone to vote no just because you want there to be more idiots on the yes side.

Irn re my comment - i was agreeing with sqoosh - the voter was behaving in a desperately dim style.

that doesn't make me a bigot - nor does suggesting that there should be an exam to vote. It could be an eye exam, or perhaps a nit exam. Only votes for those with nit free hair?

I am not deliberately churning out so much misinformation Apologies for not checking the exact population of Scotland. I will check. But my point about the notion of being 'responsible' remains, regardless of the exact size of the nation state. Also I have stated many of my reasons for voting no as my beliefs, ideals and hopes. I've been careful to do that.

odd will you be voting in the referendum?

Fair enough, disagree with the Yes side odd but there's no need to go down the route of implying Scottish voters are dim and should sit an exam to be eligible to vote. Step too far, IMO.

here's Justine from MN talking on Radio 5 Live saying MN users are "slightly less tribal and more willing to listen to the argument" errr ....

Yes it's going at bit pear-shaped AnnieHoo!

I'm sorry if my posts are a little on the snarky side - but i havent heard of any cases of the no side racially abusing a yes voter. i have seen and heard many of the opposite.

and lovely - you are right i despair. I despair for my children, my DH and for my country. That it seems perfectlt excusable, nay acceptable for the Yes side to abuse the English, to abuse the No side as being traitors or quislings.

It has brought an ugliness to the whole affair that is quite sickening.

There are certainly cases of Scottish people on the receiving end of abuse in England - but the difference is that it isnt part of an organised political campaign.

Please show me I am wrong.

...cue a surge of trolls on MN!

Btw I believe the debate here has generally been healthy and respectful.

Emotions run high, it's the 50/50 thing.

Already voted

5,327,700 people living in Scotland as of 2013.

Very happy to be corrected and have the facts on this thread.

It seems from this that Scottish labour can't even agree amongst themselves about devolution of tax powers. With a general election looming in May there is no chance of labour and the Tories and the libdems all agreeing before then,

Have to say, I must have very "naice" friends: I've never come across any nastiness - even though there is a mix of Yes and No (although a definite majority of Yes).

All the debating, although passionate, has been in good heart. And in consideration to the one friend who is a No voter and who gets very upset about the topic as she genuinely fears moving back down South and knock-on implications to her health, the topic is not raised in her presence.

I've experienced "racism" in two circumstances: first as a child, when I was teased for being "foreign" (which upset me as I considered myself Scottish even if my parents spoke with South African accents) and second as in my 20s living in England.

Both circumstances were wrong. It is the individuals who were wrong, not a nation. I only moved back to Scotland because I met my now dh (in Miami of all places! ) and as my contract was coming to an end, made the decision to come back.

I'm sorry if my posts are a little on the snarky side - but i havent heard of any cases of the no side racially abusing a yes voter. i have seen and heard many of the opposite.

So do you think we could agree to disagree on this? I can find evidence easily, but in the past I have been accused of bringing unpleasantness onto the thread and "trawling" for evidence.

You think there is more abuse from the Yes side (you are no voter). I think there is more abuse from No side (I am Yes voter). I think I am right that the truth is somewhere in the middle, but that it is a minority, and is not acceptable, and that discussing it brings nothing to the debate.

Two incidents this week in my school of anti-Englishness. One, a pupil telling another that he can't wait for the English to "fuck off" and a second, a pupil telling another that it "is exactly two weeks until the end of the English".

Secondary school - both usually fairly well behaved and compliant pupils - both hard-working. One above average intelligence, the other about average.

They must be picking this up somewhere!

How is it wrong to post a list when someone has asked for a list?

No campaigners are forever posting their lists of doom and gloom.

At least I have a positive argument.

What are bt's positive arguments?

They don't have any.

I am still waiting for a no campaigner on these threads to articulate how the union will offer a successful future for their grandchildren. All I see is whining about the particular job you have this minute. It is so short sighted!

I have noticed that certain posters have never mentioned their DCs.

So either they don't have any no wonder they don't care about childcare or don't consider their future when making this once in a lifetime decision.

5Live on now

Re the mumsnet live debate tomorrow lunchtime!?
Justine, economy, risk, uncertain, micro and macro concerns all discussed
Less tribal
Less risk averse
Civilised
We don't believe scaremongering apparently, quoting the survey figures from the rubbish survey
Huge topic on mumsnet, 10% members are Scottish

Final hurrah debate on mnet, not TV
We are less aggressive and shouty [!]

You Gov person
Close referendum
Women far less keen on Yes, many still don't know
Other groups important to result, but women's vote is very important

Women callers
Yes caller, positive opportunities, we listen, help others evaluate, outward and forward looking, media is biased, Internet based info is better, speak to woman at supermarket and within 5 mins had convinced to a Yes vote

No caller, too much uncertainty, AS bluster he won't get everything he demands, informed grandmother concerned about future,
Yes person interrupts, uncertainty on both sides
Keeps interrupting.....won't let no person speak!

Are women represented? Question from presenter.
Yes caller, feels patronised by discussion being on mumsnet, pat on the head
No caller, people are finding their voices everywhere but Nos are being shouted down by the 'yes bandwagon'

Yes, we have engaged with women, positivity (again) difference going forward.

Cuts off no response due to time constraints.

Ok not claiming accuracy is 100% but I did my best

I think some of the no posters on this thread are doing sterling work for the Yes campaign.
Being constantly patronised and talked down to, and told everything is going to be awful in the event of a yes vote, is precisely what is turning voters to the yes side in their droves!

I'm really shocked at the way people are behaving. I've had hate mail via pm (not on here, this place is much politer than the average), and my FB feed has certain individuals writing comments that make my stomach turn. I'm actually beginning to wonder if I will feel safe in my own country. Its got to the stage that I'm impressed with Yes voters if they don't make abusive or idiotic comments. Its almost as if Salmond's latest shouty slanging match has given permission to those previously holding back to follow suit.

I really cannot believe quite how badly a few people are behaving. There seems to be censorship of bad behaviour, its almost as if society has broken down in that respect and bad behaviour is almost seen as a good thing, a revolutionary type thing, and its a contest of a race to the bottom of who can behave the worst.

I think what the Referendum is doing is revealing a side of Scotland and the Scots that is deeply unpleasant and deeply intolerant. I wouldn't feel safe living in a country where my perfectly reasonable views are not tolerated and I think we should question why Scotland is producing so many poorly educated intolerant people. If I was living abroad, say in Belgium, and I saw this in the news every day, I would be horrified, and looking to get out of that country asap.