Indyref 6

[StatisticallyChallenged]

Welcome to indyref 6

Spidergirl8 asked close to end of last thread:

What impact would independence have on fiscal policy and economic stability
What impact would the ageing population have on the future
Is the predicted future a positive one, based on fact

If the bite goes no, what has actually been achieved? Does that not just put Scotland on the back foot?

Let's try and give not too biased answers please!

But phaedrai just don't understand it. You seem to be entirely hostile to everything Scottish,- for instance saying you would rather have no passport than a scottish one! I'm just failing to understand why anyone feels that level of hostility towards anycountry , (never mind whether they were born there or not) and still chooses to live there.

Criseyede well I've just had 3 yes posters insisting I'm "Scottish" as I live here and questioning why I live here if I'm not prepared to say I'm "Scottish"

So it seems to feature quite heavily on your side.

Criseyde I understood it perfectly. Are you speaking Japanese?

What are you on about Phaedra? You go ahead and consider yourself whatever you like. The discussion was about voting eligibility, and that's based on residency.

well I've just had 3 yes posters insisting I'm "Scottish" as I live here and questioning why I live here if I'm not prepared to say I'm "Scottish"

Again:

"People can self-identify as whatever nationality they want.
In some situations nationality is judged by country of birth.
In other situations nationality is judged by country of residence."

You self identify as "x" . Under the term of this referendum you are Scottish otherwise you wouldn't be entitled to vote. Ditto you will be Scottish dual national after independence. This does not affect what you self identify as.

You don't answer straight questions, do you phaedra Deflect, deflect deflect..

Celtic that is not what I said.

I fail to understand why you are so dismissive of my desire not to have a nationality imposed on me. I already live and work here. I am not "Scottish" Your's and others' insistence that I am or will have to be is offensive.

Bloody hell can we just move on please, this is getting tedious.

Great way to stifle debate or dissension - call everyone who doesn't agree with you a racist or uncaring or any other pejorative term that suits your objectives and the particular situation.

Indeed. There has been a lot of this on these threads LadyCordelia and it is very unpleasant to witness.

u aren't Scottish if you were born in eg Portugal and have lived there all your 55 years

Portuguese by birth. Scottish by residency.

If you're not Scottish, why are you on the electorate register then to vote? I'm assuming you can vote in this referendum?

"Criseyde, why would your relatives feel alienated from politics in Scotland just because they identify with another country? You seem to be conflating unconnected issues."

I really don't think so, Flyte. I stated that I have relatives who identity as [x nationality] and can't vote in that country but were happy with that, and you said this was hard to understand. What is hard to understand about this I really can't see.

Earlier you said that you would be [skeptical, uncomfortable emoticon] about an referendum result which hinged on the votes of EU voters - so it would seem that you are slightly uncomfortable with people who don't identify as Scottish or British participating fully in Scottish/UK politics.

Again, really have to say that I am staggered by the extent to which No posters here are clearly obsessed with defining national identity.

No is denying Scotland has a deficit.

The UK has a deficit.

It is a good illustration of how WM has mismanaged our economy.

You are actually arguing that we should stick with a system that has led us into this state of economic affairs?

Scotland's deficit is another reason to vote yes.

No one

I never said anything of the sort phaedra You still haven't answered my question about why you live in Scotland if you dislike it so much. i don't give 1 rats arse what nationality you are, but you are trying to make it about that!
I don't expect i'll get a straight answer. It's like banging your head against a brick wall..

I live work and pay tax and am on electoral register and am eligible to vote. That does not make me "Scottish" It means I fulfill the criteria of being eligible to vote in this one particular election.

That does not make me "Scottish"

And that all depends on the definition of " Scottish " or "nationality" of which there are many. Shall we move on ,- this isn't particularly relevant and we are derailing again...

It's a moot point Phaedra- haven't you already said you'll leave before Independence Day? So you will never 'have Scottish citizenship forced on you'.

This debate is already generating global headlines.

A yes vote will be the biggest news story of the year, if not the decade. I can't see how all this positive publicity won't significantly boost tourism.

I approve of the broad franchise inside the country it seems right to include everyone who works and lives there but I disapprove of excluding other affected parties. Basically the entire UK should be voting on this because it affects the whole.

Non-nationals are excluded from voting in plebiscites in Ireland. But Ireland is a proper nation in that it issues its own passports and has its own central bank. Really there's no such thing as being Scottish in terms of nationality (in the same way being Cornish is not a nationality). The border between Scotland and England has moved extensively throughout history. At one point Robert the Bruce's Kingdom spread down to Yorkshire.

Celtic I didn't answer your question because it was a ridiculous question. I have said nothing about not liking living in Scotland or at least Edinburgh (in fact I frequently sing Edinburgh's praises)

You have extrapolated from the fact I want to stay in the Union, want to keep my British citizenship and passport, do not identity as "Scottish" as hating Scotland.

I'm interested why you should come to the conclusion I hate Scotland. I actually have never said anything of the kind.

I loathe Salmond and Sturgeon and the division they are creating.

"I live work and pay tax and am on electoral register and am eligible to vote. That does not make me "Scottish" It means I fulfill the criteria of being eligible to vote in this one particular election."

Agree with this fully. Nothing makes anybody "Scottish" (whatever that may be) in terms of self-identity, other than actually self-identifying as Scottish - which you don't have to live in Scotland to do. You can be as Scottish, or not Scottish as you like.

But (most, sadly not all) people living and working and registered to vote in Scotland are eligible to vote. And that is all that matters. Other rights and benefits are determined by residency too.

It's a moot point Phaedra- haven't you already said you'll leave before Independence Day? So you will never 'have Scottish citizenship forced on you'

More inventions. I have said nothing of the kind.

I'm not twisting your words at all, Flyte. And nor did I call you a racist.

You posted:

"So, if the result is a no vote and you knew that the no majority was because all the non UK EU citizens living in Scotland had voted no, would you be happy with that? I'd be happy with the overall result but that it was a reflection of the will of the Scottish people."

This implies you're skeptical about a referendum hinging on the votes of EU voters reflecting "the will of the Scottish people". Whereas I don't see any problem whatsoever with EU citizens participating fully in this election, and I don't see their democratic right to participate as any more important than mine. Nor do I think they have to self-identity as Scottish if that's not how they choose to self-identity. Conversely, if someone moves here and chooses to self-identify as Scottish from day one, that's perfectly legitimate.