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Original poster

Indyref 6

999 replies

StatisticallyChallenged · 06/09/2014 19:42

Welcome to indyref 6

Spidergirl8 asked close to end of last thread:

What impact would independence have on fiscal policy and economic stability
What impact would the ageing population have on the future
Is the predicted future a positive one, based on fact

If the bite goes no, what has actually been achieved? Does that not just put Scotland on the back foot?

Let's try and give not too biased answers please!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Iggi999 · 07/09/2014 16:26

I don't understand the idea that people currently resident in Scotland couldn't choose to live in, say, London if they aren't part of the EU. Irish and Northern Irish people have been able to live on either side of the border long before there was an EU, has that changed in some way?

IrnBruTheNoo · 07/09/2014 16:26

"Yes, I would be totally happy with that. It would be the will of the people living in Scotland, under this franchise, at the time of the referendum. I have absolutely zero interest in interrogating who or what the "Scottish people" are, other than that they are people who live in Scotland."

This.

Original poster
StatisticallyChallenged · 07/09/2014 16:26

Both countries are being subsidised. By DEBT.

OP posts:
Criseyde · 07/09/2014 16:26

You're quoting Market Oracle....

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 07/09/2014 16:27

Sallyingforth Where is that quote from?

Numanoid · 07/09/2014 16:27

If you were born in Scotland and live in Scotland, you're Scottish. You're also British. Both by default.
No, you don't have to identify as both, or either.
If you weren't born in Scotland, but feel Scottish and identify as Scottish, that's fine.
If you weren't born in Scotland, don't feel Scottish and want to identify as a different nationality, that's also fine.

tl;dr: It doesn't matter which nationality you identify as - it's up to you. :)

And I want to add a Tardis because I just noticed it had been added to the Smileys list.

Sallyingforth · 07/09/2014 16:28

Yes. Do you dispute the figures?

LadyCordeliaFlyte · 07/09/2014 16:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 07/09/2014 16:28

I can't find 'of that country' in the dictionary. What does it mean please?

It means that when you live/work in a country you are invested enough in that country to be entitled to vote. Place of birth is an irrelevancy.

Criseyde · 07/09/2014 16:30

Market Oracle is a pretty odd source to choose in order to counter the veracity of Wings...

I don't go about linking Wings, for various reasons, but that's an odd, odd counter source.

squoosh · 07/09/2014 16:30

I live in Scotland but am not Scottish by birth and would never in a million years classify myself as 'Scottish'. So I do have some sympathy for those who feel it's a bit unfair that people who don't plan on being here forever get to decide on something that will effect Scotland forever. Likewise I have sympathy for Scots living abroad who feel strongly about the issue yet do not have the right to vote.

PhaedraIsMyName · 07/09/2014 16:30

Oh are we getting to tests of Scottishness now? I never said anything about not liking living here (or certainly the city I live in)

I questioned why that should mean I am identified as or should have to identify as " Scottish" . That leads 2 of you to the "why are you living here " tack.

If I were to say I was French, which actually I could for reasons which are none of your business, would you still insist that I am , must be Scottish.

I find your claim that living in Scotland makes you Scottish pretty offensive too.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 07/09/2014 16:31

That would be why so many Scottish people living abroad still identify very strongly as Scottish?

I think people are getting confused here between various nationalities.

People can self-identify as whatever nationality they want.
In some situations nationality is judged by country of birth.
In other situations nationality is judged by country of residence.

IrnBruTheNoo · 07/09/2014 16:32

Apologies if you've been offended because others think people are Scottish for living in Scotland. It should be a crime Hmm

LadyCordeliaFlyte · 07/09/2014 16:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Criseyde · 07/09/2014 16:34

"What nonsense "if you live in a country then you are of that country". That would be why so many Scottish people living abroad still identify very strongly as Scottish."

People can identify strongly as or with any nationality they choose. We were discussing different franchise rules and whether the result of this referendum should be seen as democratically or sentimentally legitimate if it hinged on the votes cast by EU voters (which is an odd way to look at the numbers itself, but there you go). The important issue here is not who identifies in what way, but who has the right to participate in democratic processes and civic life.

Half my extended family identity very, very strongly with another EU nation. They don't get to vote there. They don't see that as unfair. It doesn't mean they feel alienated from politics in Scotland.

Criseyde · 07/09/2014 16:35

It really seems to be the No voters on this thread who are obsessed with nationalism.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 07/09/2014 16:36

nationality
na???nal?ti
noun
noun: nationality; plural noun: nationalities
1.
the status of belonging to a particular nation.
"men of Spanish nationality"
synonyms: citizenship; the right to hold a passport
"individuals seeking British nationality"
archaic
distinctive national or ethnic character.
"the change of a name does not discard nationality"
2.
an ethnic group forming a part of one or more political nations.
"all the main nationalities of Ethiopia"
synonyms: ethnic group, ethnic minority, tribe, clan, race, nation

LadyCordeliaFlyte · 07/09/2014 16:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sallyingforth · 07/09/2014 16:37

Market Oracle is a pretty odd source to choose in order to counter the veracity of Wings...

It has just as much "veracity" as Wings. It just disagrees with your point of view. I posted it to show weatherall that shouting FACT doesn't make her/his figures any more believable than anyone else's.

I've quote Oracle before and may do so again.

PhaedraIsMyName · 07/09/2014 16:37

IrnBru I said nothing of the sort and you know it.

You , Celticlass and weatherall on the other hand are telling me I'm Scottish and are questioning why I should live here if I don't embrace being Scottish.

Still nice to be forewarned of what I can look forward to.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 07/09/2014 16:38

It really seems to be the No voters on this thread who are obsessed with nationalism.

Particularly those who think the SNP are Nazis. Its fascinating.

Numanoid · 07/09/2014 16:38

Why does it matter what someone's nationality is, or isn't? We're all human beings, and can make almost anywhere our home. It causes a lot of issues, it would seem. Have one, or choose not to, and live and let live.

Criseyde · 07/09/2014 16:39

"Half my extended family identity very, very strongly with another EU nation. They don't get to vote there. They don't see that as unfair. It doesn't mean they feel alienated from politics in Scotland."

What doesn't make sense about this? Many members of my extended family identify very strongly with another country in the EU. They consider themselves [x nationality]. But they can't vote in elections in that country. They don't think this is unfair in any way. They participate fully in Scottish politics.

Where is the confusion?

Criseyde · 07/09/2014 16:40

"It has just as much "veracity" as Wings"

Yeah, like I said, I'm really not a big fan of wings.

I just thought you might have more impressive sources.