Indyref 6

[StatisticallyChallenged]

Welcome to indyref 6

Spidergirl8 asked close to end of last thread:

What impact would independence have on fiscal policy and economic stability
What impact would the ageing population have on the future
Is the predicted future a positive one, based on fact

If the bite goes no, what has actually been achieved? Does that not just put Scotland on the back foot?

Let's try and give not too biased answers please!

It is for that reason that citizens of other countries should not have been given a vote. I don't know how many citizens of other countries live in Scotland, but it just doesn't seem right that anyone who is not a UK citizen should have a say in a decision which will have far reaching consequences for Scottish citizens.

They are as much Scottish citizens as those of us who were born here, and will have to live with the consequences of the vote. I know many people not born in Scotland who have lived here longer than me, so it would seem unfair for me to get a vote, and not them.
They vote in General Elections, I can't imagine the reaction if they were told "not this one".

securing better democratic representation

Proportional representation.

Polonium, I agree. It is for that reason that citizens of other countries should not have been given a vote. I don't know how many citizens of other countries live in Scotland, but it just doesn't seem right that anyone who is not a UK citizen should have a say in a decision which will have far reaching consequences for Scottish citizens.

I know people from Germany, Denmark, Iceland, Italy, Spain, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, France who will be voting in the referendum. Many are employed in academia and medicine, many are high rate tax payers with a wide social circle many send their children to school in Scotland and have a very real stake in the country's future.

Of course they should have a vote.

l always call myself British. I'm a proud Brit. I do call myself 'Scottish' when elsewhere in the UK but when doing forms etc, I always select British.

I think the turnout will be high.

You can't vote in GE's unless you have citizenship. There are Scottish residents who will have a vote in the referendum but not in GE's.

"What makes someone have Scottish nationality anyway?"

Exactly - who is to say that a resident in Scotland is "not Scottish" simply because they originally came here from a different country.

Honestly, I think that ensuring EU and Commonwealth citizens have the right to vote does not go far enough - I would have preferred it if any Scottish resident could vote. It doesn't seem fair that someone living and working in Scotland who is from, say, Canada can vote, but someone who is from the US can't. But those were the existing franchise rules for local and EU elections, so I can understand why they used them.

My father sadly dead now adored his home country but he was a very grateful and loyal adopted son of his home country: Britain.

But seriously, what is it that confers Scottish nationality?

Exactly - who is to say that a resident in Scotland is "not Scottish" simply because they originally came here from a different country.

I find the irritation goes the other way; things like official forms , until recently the SNP wittering on about " the Scottish people" as if being a resident here means one is Scottish.

Equally, it's a shame that Scottish people who are not currently resident in Scotland, but hope to return don't have a vote in the referendum.

It's a tricky one though. As a no voter it's annoying to think that someone who is resident in Scotland but doesn't have british citizenship could vote for me to have to leave the UK.

My father sadly dead now adored his home-of-origin country but he was a very grateful and loyal adopted son of his home country: Britain.

"As there is no separate Scottish citizenship, UK citizenship and living in Scotland would have been the next best way of restricting votes to those who will be most affected."

I don't agree. This isn't an existing franchise. It is fairer to use the existing rules for a franchise than to invent completely new ones. Personally, I think it would have been fairer to base eligibility on residency alone, but that doesn't cover an existing franchise either, so I understand why they didn't.

BogQueen Angus Wishart was cutting it fine catching a 11.55am plane to London when parliament winds up at 2.30pm on a Friday.

Who knows where the other 3 SNP MP's were? Obviously Bedroom Tax is not an issue they feel a duty to vote against. One of the is my MP and he is grossly misrepresenting his constituency.

As a no voter it's annoying to think that someone who is resident in Scotland but doesn't have british citizenship could vote for me to have to leave the UK.

What about those who don't have British citizenship, but are voting No?

"As a no voter it's annoying to think that someone who is resident in Scotland but doesn't have british citizenship could vote for me to have to leave the UK."

And they say that Yes voters are nationalistic...

It's much more important to have a vote if you are living here than if you just happened to be born here.

Who are the ethnic nationalists? Not the SNP it seems.

That will not be an option open to UK citizens who live in Scotland who will become Scottish citizens on Independence Day.

Unless rUK decides to revoke citizenship from anyone who is also a Scottish Citizen you will be a dual citizen.

"Angus Wishart was cutting it fine [...] Who knows where the other 3 SNP MP's were? Obviously Bedroom Tax is not an issue they feel a duty to vote against. One of the is my MP and he is grossly misrepresenting his constituency."

Hi Annie - I totally agree that this is a poor show, and very poor PR, for the SNP. However, I hope you also know that SNP MPs voted very strongly against all aspects of the 2012 Welfare Reform Act in the first place. And when Labour tabled a motion to end the bedroom tax in 2013 all six SNP MPs supported the motion - yet 47 Labour MPs failed to vote and the motion was defeated by just 26 votes. This Lib Dem private members bill was bound to pass because both the Lib Dems and Labour were clearly going to support it - quite a u-turn for the Lib Dems given that they helped to introduce the measure in the first place...

I could also add that Labour voted for the Welfare Cap, while the SNP voted against it.

So yes, very poor PR for the SNP, but it is worth looking at the history of this bill in context.

EU is an interesting one isn't it. I'm not sure that I can be stripped of my EU passport.

It's a strawman argument. It won't happen. So why bother about it?

But if in some alternative universe where people had to declare where they were born before voting - then I would think so be it. That's democracy.

But I am a wretched immigrant

"So, if the result is a no vote and you knew that the no majority was because all the non UK EU citizens living in Scotland had voted no, would you be happy with that? I'd be happy with the overall result but hmm that it was a reflection of the will of the Scottish people."

Yes, I would be totally happy with that. It would be the will of the people living in Scotland, under this franchise, at the time of the referendum. I have absolutely zero interest in interrogating who or what the "Scottish people" are, other than that they are people who live in Scotland.