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Indyref 6

999 replies

StatisticallyChallenged · 06/09/2014 19:42

Welcome to indyref 6

Spidergirl8 asked close to end of last thread:

What impact would independence have on fiscal policy and economic stability
What impact would the ageing population have on the future
Is the predicted future a positive one, based on fact

If the bite goes no, what has actually been achieved? Does that not just put Scotland on the back foot?

Let's try and give not too biased answers please!

OP posts:
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11
Polonium · 07/09/2014 12:30

sconequeen - what level have you studied economics to, because I see no evidence of it on this thread?

FannyFifer · 07/09/2014 12:30

So how would you define well educated?

AnnieHoo · 07/09/2014 12:31

In my experience the referendum divide is not the same as party political divide. It cuts through class and education and is more about individual's economic situations.

WhatWouldFreddieDo · 07/09/2014 12:33

Another positive No voter - being part of the UK has contributed hugely to Scotland's prosperity and security. Staying part of it but negotiating lots more devolved powers over the years to come is the best way of creating a fairer society up here, which I think is what most of us want.

At the moment I feel like we're on a rollercoaster driven by someone I neither like nor trust, heading for a section of track that hasn't been built yet.

sconequeen · 07/09/2014 12:37

Polonium - I have studied economics and statistical analysis at undergraduate level as part of my Honours degree. I also have a post-graduate qualification in accountancy and finance which included further economics as well as quantitative techniques, taxation etc. I am a member of the UK's professional institute for economic development practitioners. I have various other post-graduate qualifications too.

I'm detailing this not because I think you need to have a degree or post-graduate qualifications to hold a valid opinion but because you are questioning my education (and therefore the validity of my views).

PrettyPictures92 · 07/09/2014 12:38

So I'm poorly educated and poor because I'm voting yes? Hmm seems like no voters think personal attacks are the best way to go after all

LadyCordeliaFlyte · 07/09/2014 12:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BardarbungaBardarbing · 07/09/2014 12:43

Sorry polonium I was I suppose distinguishing between people who feel educated as they have done courses and have the certificates to prove it and people whose judgement I trust. I ahve a trouble lumping the "educated" and "non-educated" into categories.

TheBogQueen · 07/09/2014 12:43

Let's not start a pissing contest over qualifications.
It's demeaning and irrelevant

StatisticallyChallenged · 07/09/2014 12:44

I'm a positive and a negative No voter. I think being part of the union benefits us, brings economic and fiscal stability (yes, in spite of the recession) that we would struggle to replicate in an independent Scotland. I think our recent shared history is more important than our ancient divided past. I think we're well represented with the combination of the Scottish Parliament for more Scottish issues and Westminster dealing with wider economic and foreign policy issues (amongst others) although I'm pro devo max. Our country isn't perfect, but I don't see it as the hell hole many portray it as.

On the flip side, I am negative about many aspects of the independence proposals. For me, the promises they are making don't stack up. I don't see that Scotland will be an amazing, fairer more just country. I believe that our economy will be severely damaged and more volatile - that won't improve the lives of the most vulnerable in our society. I think we would have a very long period of readjustment before we began to get close to where we are now - and that would do nothing for social justice.

OP posts:
deeedeee · 07/09/2014 12:45

And again with the insults!

Yes voters are poor and uneducated!

Don't engage with it! Report and move on. They will just make you angry, then twist something you retort with to say you're insulting the well educated, hard working wealthy

TheBogQueen · 07/09/2014 12:45

And frankly anyone who draws parallels between 1920s Weimar Republic and Scotland in the 21st century needs to go back to university.

PrettyPictures92 · 07/09/2014 12:46

This is ridiculous and if the No campaign has nothing better to do than insult my education, that is courtesy of their government, and finances then is it any wonder that I would prefer an independent Scotland?

Just because someone has not had a top university education and does not take home six figures does not make them unable to grasp the current situation or unable to understand what will happen.

LadyCordeliaFlyte · 07/09/2014 12:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BardarbungaBardarbing · 07/09/2014 12:49

I agree PrettyPictures but it's one poster not the No campaign..

FannyFifer · 07/09/2014 12:50

I must love you & leave you all for now as I got a night shift sprung on me at 10pm last night. Hmm
I was meant to be working all day today, instead I must try & get some sleep. Adieu.

PrettyPictures92 · 07/09/2014 12:51

That was meant to say "no campaigners" apologies

LadyCordeliaFlyte · 07/09/2014 12:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

squoosh · 07/09/2014 12:53

I don't think either side of the campaign has the monopoly on crackpots.

Sallyingforth · 07/09/2014 12:53

Cordelia I think we need to be a bit more careful with presentation of such data.

If less well-off and/or less well-educated people are more likely to vote Yes, it's not because they are stupid. (I know you haven't actually said that but it might be inferred).

It is because going into an unknown world such people perceive that because they already have little, they have less to lose and more to gain from the drastic changes that will happen.

Since the SNP campaign has few answers on the practical front, they are aiming specifically at those who are relying on their hearts and instincts to decide rather than their calculators.

chocoluvva · 07/09/2014 12:53

I'm voting no because I want the whole of Britain to work together.

The question - hard won by the SNP is, "Should Scotland become an independent country?"

The question isn't, "Should Westminster change some of its current policies and practices?"

I am as annoyed as the yes-voters at the current government with its attempts, at the expense of vulnerable/disadvantaged groups, to make sure no-one ever claims benefits they might not deserve, thereby supposedly saving small amounts of money, while they seem to do nothing about unfair, barely legal practices used by 'fatcats' to avoid paying tax, but I don't think voting for independence is the answer.

I totally understand the desire for change, but the way to get it is not through voting for independence. A yes vote as a protest against Westminster is reactionary. Anyway, there is no reason to think that a scottish parliament would be morally better or more accountable than a parliament in Westminster. And, as I've said on this thread several times - it would only effect change for the people of Scotland. You can't claim the moral high ground if you are prepared to turn your back on rUK.

And the arguments that the 'better together' campaign is negative are ridiculous when the question has been asked in such a way that those voters who want to stay in UK have to vote 'no' to get that wish. The question could have been, "Should Scotland remain part of the UK?" Which would obviously have meant voting 'No' in order to get this marvellously positive change advocated by the pro-independence campaigners.

I really hope the Westminster government is shaken by the closeness of the referendum.

If your ambition is for a fairer country, campaign for proportional representation, get more involved in politics at a local level and in a-political campaigns and organisations. Stand as an independent candidate. Don't try to claim that the only way to be idealistic/brave/well-informed is to set up as an independent country.

IMO

TheBogQueen · 07/09/2014 12:56

You can't separate ideology from social and political context - that is ridiculous.

Especially when it amounts up a quick scan of Wikipedia Hmm

deeedeee · 07/09/2014 12:57

s the announcement of more powers a breach of the pre-referendum purdah? The referendum "purdah period" prevents government from announcing new legislation. It began on the 21st of August

RELEVANT PERIOD (PURDAH)
Section 125 of PPERA sets out the restrictions which apply to Ministers, and public bodies,
during the 28 day period preceding referendums. This 28 day period – known as the „relevant
period? or, informally, as the „purdah period? – is treated in a way similar to the 28 day period
prior to elections, when Ministers and public bodies refrain from publishing material which could
have a bearing on the election.

Sallyingforth · 07/09/2014 12:58

PrettyPictures
I hope you can understand what I have just tried to say above. I bloody well hope think that people aren't dismissing you or anyone else as not being qualified to make a sensible decision. It seems that you have asked some very germane questions, and although I'm hoping for a No result I can see that you are not getting a clear answer from either side. Good luck with your continuing consideration.

Polonium · 07/09/2014 12:58

LOL at "don't engage with it". How ridiculous is that on a thread discussing a yes/no referendum?