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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not be sure if a 17 year old boy can be in the right headspace to train as a midwife?

618 replies

Boysclothes · 05/09/2014 11:26

I know a few male midwives, all older guys who are nurse converted and are all great. No problem with it at all.

However a friends son wants to be in a caring profession and she has asked me to have a chat with him about becoming a midwife, direct entry so training from next September. She knows a bit about it and thinks the autonomy/quicker progression/pay etc makes it more desirable than being a nurse.

So, I'm just musing here as I know the admissions tutors will make the decision they see fit, but I'm not sure if a just turned 18 year old lad could cope with or make sense of midwifery. It's just so very female isn't it? And if he hasn't got much experience of women, it just seems a bit... I dunno.... Inappropriate, possibly?

I'm going to tell him about the realities of the job but what are your thoughts?

OP posts:
JuniorMumber · 05/09/2014 12:30

The boy might make an excellent midwife (midhusband?), but the unfortunate fact is that many women won't feel comfortable being assisted by him, and that is their call as given birth is such a very intimate and in dignifying business. Just from a practical perspective it will be a pain for the hospital to juggle him around based on women's preferences.

I had a male midwife in his 30's in July this year and I couldn't have given less of a toss at the time. He was helping teach me how to breastfeed at that. It's way more important that the individual shows confidence and professionalism. I had a really baby-faced male surgeon stitch up my Biffin's bridge after the birth as well - that made me a bit nervous.

OnlyLovers · 05/09/2014 12:30

'I can't think of any other medical situation where for around 12 hours you are one on one with the medic doing repeated intimate exams in a state of increasing pain and stress'

I thought midwives sometimes changed shift while patients were still in labour?

SaucyJack · 05/09/2014 12:30

Saucy, what do you mean by 'birth-rapey attitude'?

That was in response to Piper who thinks women shouldn't have the right to say no to any man who wants to insert a body part into their vagina. Last time I checked rape was the general term.

If there isn't a women available and it's an emergency, then that's that. But to say women (or men) shouldn't get to "discriminate" in who performs intimate treatment is a terrible and dangerous attitude.

PiperRose · 05/09/2014 12:31

Boysclothes All forms of discrimination upset me, I'm just so shocked at this because it's a new one on me.

BarbarianMum · 05/09/2014 12:31

OK Femin I'll accept the correction. But I've never known anyone whose gone through the 'is it cancer, no it's crohns' route to give too hoots because they are usually so f*cking sick and desperate.

WooWooOwl · 05/09/2014 12:32

Motto - not. Autocorrect fail.

noddingoff · 05/09/2014 12:32

With regard to the mechanics of it - sheep farmers' sons (and daughters) pull plenty of lambs out of vaginas before they've reached double figures. By their teenage years they would be trusted to do the wee small hours shift on their own lambing ewes. By the time I was fifteen I could guddle about up to my armpit in a cow's uterus, correct simple malpresentations and deliver the calf or know when to call the vet. OK emotionally speaking things are different with people but the anatomy argument doesn't wash.

BarbarianMum · 05/09/2014 12:33

bagsetti and that's (obviously) fine. But that's not to say that no man should ever train as a midwife.

dancingwithmyselfandthecat · 05/09/2014 12:33

I am genuinely upset by some of the attitudes on here. It's like being dumped in a parallel universe

If you have no objection to having a male HCP that's fine, go ahead.

Many women do. Not because they are evil, sexist cows. Some have been sexually assaulted. Some have cultural backgrounds which emphasise separation of the sexes, and would feel deeply uncomfortable about violating this principle. Some have general issues or hang ups about their bodies and feel - for whatever reason - that a same sex HCP will be less of a violation of their intimate space.

This is also true for men. My father had a prostate op last year, and requested a male doctor and a male nurse when he needed a sponge bath.

It's also true for fields which don't relate directly to intimate parts. I had extensive CBT for severe depression and anxiety. I tried a couple of sessions with a male practitioner, and I just couldn't relax around him enough to open up.

Equally, there are lots of other reasons not related to performance why someone might request a different HCP. I needed to see a specialist several years ago and I found that I just couldn't get along with the first one. They didn't listen to me, they talked over me, couldn't make eye contact. Actually, they are an excellent doctor. But I knew that at that point, I needed someone I could work with. Because a lot of medicine isn't a passive process.

OnlyLovers · 05/09/2014 12:34

Saucy, I can't see in PiperRose's posts anything that indicates that. What post(s) of hers are you referring to specifically?

Tittifilarious · 05/09/2014 12:34

My mum has a similar viewpoint to Branleuse - she thinks only women who have given birth should be midwives.

I was Hmm at that, but I do remember the very earnest suggestions from some young (yes, I know being sexist, ageist and non-parentist) midwives that were either impractical, ineffective or just plain fanciful and thinking maybe my mum had a point!

I'm just thinking back to various "intrusive" procedures though - not limited to childbirth - and I genuinely didn't mind trainees being there whether they were male or female.

So I think I'm coming down on the side of "if young females who haven't had babies can become midwives then I'm ok with young males doing the same".

Original poster
Boysclothes · 05/09/2014 12:34

Yes woo, it's racist/sexist/homophobic etc. But patients do have the right to decline care from anyone. They aren't beholden to the Equality Act when it comes to their bodies. And of course we will accommodate that if we can.

That's a separate issue in my mind though. Male midwives do exist and are employed so I assume it's not such a huge problem. It's the age and the gender together that gave me pause.

OP posts:
TaurielTest · 05/09/2014 12:34

Nope, not midhusband - the "wife" bit refers to the woman giving birth, not the (traditionally female) person who is with her ("mid" = with).

rainbowinmyroom · 05/09/2014 12:35

I agree completely, parallax, with regards to medicine being a graduate profession. Midwifery is, too, in the US.

Notso · 05/09/2014 12:35

I had a late MC at 16 and my first DC at 19. I would have preferred a younger Midwife for both experiences.
When I had DC4 he was caught, literally by a male paramedic, he was great, if a little unprepared he thought he would just be taking us to hospital.
When I got to the ward the experienced older midwife was awful and kept pushing me to go home even though I was in shock, shaking and vomiting and hadn't even held DS.
It was the young student midwife who ran me a bath, made me a cup of sweet tea and actually gave a shit about how I was feeling.

femin · 05/09/2014 12:35

Barbarinmum - I have, and one does turn out to have cancer. I would suggest that maybe you don't know any or many women who have been through what some of my friends have been through. Sometimes putting yourself in someone else's shoes is helpful.

noddingoff · 05/09/2014 12:35

In order of importance I'd like my midwife to be

  1. competent
  2. kind
  3. a good conversationalist
(a very distant 4th) female. But if the maternity ward happened to be busy and the first attribute was the only one my midwife possessed, then so be it.
DiaDuit · 05/09/2014 12:36

The boy might make an excellent midwife (midhusband

Midwife actually means 'with woman' (so describes what you are doing- being with the woman during birth) and bears no reference to the sex of the person who does the job. So male midwives are just that. Smile

WooWooOwl · 05/09/2014 12:39

I agree that patients should have the right to decline care from anyone, of course they should have that right, just as they have the right to decline care altogether should they so wish.

And if patients wishes can be adhered to without a problem, or any inconvenience to other patients, then all good.

But I don't believe that the NHS should be legally required to provide care only from a specific chosen sex, and that is a different thing.

Decline care if you want, but don't demand that your wishes be accommodated when your needs have already been provided.

myotherusernameisbetter · 05/09/2014 12:39

I'm of the view that a 17 year old is probably a bit young to be training to be a midwife - regardless of their gender.

Additionally it seems to me it's been chosen for the promotion prospects rather than from the desire to the job.

I know people do that in other professions but it doesn't seem the right thing to do in a caring type of career.

magpiegin · 05/09/2014 12:41

I gave birth last week and had a few complications so had a lot of people examining, looking and generally in the vicinity of my genitals. The only thing I wanted was communication and caring which I got. Gender, age or any other factor did not matter and would never matter to me.

Of course people can request to have a female staff (although in an emergency or if staffing problems it could be difficult) but if that is what he wants to do then good on him.

BarbarianMum · 05/09/2014 12:41

Femin - likewise.

PiperRose · 05/09/2014 12:41

"Decline care if you want, but don't demand that your wishes be accommodated when your needs have already been provided."

This from WooWoo

Terrierterror · 05/09/2014 12:43

Someone else's rights end at my vulva. What goes into my vagina is very much my choice.

basgetti · 05/09/2014 12:43

Decline care if you want, but don't demand that your wishes be accommodated when your needs have already been provided.

Whether a 'need' has been provided is subjective though. I don't think an NHS which tells a traumatised rape victim that she has to be physically examined by a male or go without has catered for her needs at all. Quite the opposite.