To not be sure if a 17 year old boy can be in the right headspace to train as a midwife?

[Boysclothes]

I know a few male midwives, all older guys who are nurse converted and are all great. No problem with it at all.

However a friends son wants to be in a caring profession and she has asked me to have a chat with him about becoming a midwife, direct entry so training from next September. She knows a bit about it and thinks the autonomy/quicker progression/pay etc makes it more desirable than being a nurse.

So, I'm just musing here as I know the admissions tutors will make the decision they see fit, but I'm not sure if a just turned 18 year old lad could cope with or make sense of midwifery. It's just so very female isn't it? And if he hasn't got much experience of women, it just seems a bit... I dunno.... Inappropriate, possibly?

I'm going to tell him about the realities of the job but what are your thoughts?

SomethingOnce who has said that "If the preference is based on stereotyping and prejudice" that it's likely unreasonable.

You could ask her what she means by "stereotyping and prejudice" in the context of a woman born and raised in UK society, for example.

You could ask under what circumstances it would be deemed reasonable to have a preference.

That sort of thing.

That seems like a perfectly reasonable post to me. No sign of anything which claimed that women should not have the right to refuse a male midwife.

OP - it is absolutely not inappropriate - no more than a woman wanting to be a plumber, or a firefighter, or a man wanting to be a nurse, or a woman wanting to be a doctor.
What is inappropriate?????

Totally agree with 1944girl being a 1943 girl and like her did midwifery after doing paediatrics and adults and it was certainly not sexy. Good luck to him my biggest problem was the midwives strange lot

Right then.

SirChenjin you said that you didn't see this that I said about the thread "the wider implication that women are being unreasonable in some way by having a preference"

Then you have gone on to agree with someone who said

"If the preference is based on stereotyping and prejudice, that does seem a bit U, tbh"

So, um.

And on that note, I may hit the hay.

PS - I agree with what SirChen says above!

I would be prejudiced if I believed, with no evidence, that the care of a male clinician would be less favourable than that of a female.

I support the right of other people to be prejudiced, though. Which sounds fucking weird and doesn't sit right, but there it is.

I would still be extremely interested in finding out what constitutes "stereotyping and prejudice" given the widespread incidence of sexual crimes against women and girls, and the strong societal taboos around private parts / opposite sex people etc, though.

A prejudice is irrational. Being cautious of men you don't know - isn't entirely irrational and is in fact advice given to us by friends, neighbours, teh government, the police and the NHS and so on and so on....

Not that I agree with that advice personally, but to expect people to listen to it and follow it all teh time until they are in teh vulnerable position of having a baby and then tell them that this belief is no longer "common sense" but a prejudice is just all cock-eyed.

I really must go to bed!

So if you don't want a male midwife, you will also refuse a male gynaecologist, or a male doctor for any specifically "female" ailments or aspects of your body that may need attention. If you will only insist upon female opinion/analysis/diagnosis, then you may be in for a very long wait

I would be happy to wait for an all female team.

Some women do, I think, Evans.

They have their reasons for that I'm sure.

Unless there is a specific historic male-related reason for this feeling, then I think the feeling is irrational.

Unless there is a specific historic male-related reason for this feeling, then I think the feeling is irrational.

So were you asking Cereal her reasons so that you could decide if they are worthy enough to be taken seriously? Who are you to tell other people that their feelings are irrational?

I think the difference between a gynaecologist and obstetrician for normal birth is that pregnancy is not an illness. You don't need a doctor. Midwifery is different and I do think it's a female thing. There is something about giving birth that men just don't and can't ever understand, because they can't ever experience it in the way a woman can. Birth is a powerful experience, magical even and I think having a midwife who can really empathise and encourage you is something every woman should have( if they want it). I have had 2 births and I think that the moment of birth for each of my children was one of the most powerful experiences I have ever had, I felt like a tiger! So strong! But I would NOT have had those experiences, especially the first time round had I not had a midwife who believed in natural birth, who encouraged me into the pool, held my hand and told me I could do it, it's hard to explain, but a man just could not have provided the same support, no matter how nice and knowledgeable.

Why so much faith in women clinicians, anyway?

It was a female midwife who performed a painful and unexpected procedure to which I hadn't consented when I was in labour with DC1 (there was plenty of time for seeking informed consent).

And it was another female midwife who subsequently minimised and dismissed my unhappiness about it.

I've no reason to think male midwives would have behaved differently.

Disco, may we try a thought experiment?

What if the female midwife was born without a uterus?

I'm not trying to be difficult, but since she can never experience it like a woman can, where does that leave her?

Who are you to tell other people that their feelings are irrational?

I told no-one, Basgetti - but whilst we are on the subject, who are you to tell someone that their feelings are not?

That particular comment was not at Cereal - the comment I made to her directly was directly addressed.

Please do not tell me to whom I should address my comments - this is a public forum - any comment thrown into the mix can expect a response.

Thank you!

How is it irrational to prefer to have a woman with you during labour? No. What is irrational to me is the idea that we should all conform to some newfangled state of sameness between the sexes. Someone, somewhere on this thread mentioned something along the lines of not wanting to look at a man and see a man, just a person. Gimme a break. That stirs up images of some sort of androgynous society. A society that could find itself not needing midwives of either sex if we don't choose the 'person' with the well hidden willy. What with us all looking the same and just being people and all...

We may strive for and welcome equality, but that does not equate to being unaware and unaccepting of our differences. Men and women are not the same. Yes, we are all human beings. All capable, for the most part, of doing what the other can do. Does that mean that in order to fulfill the idealistic notion of equality we should ignore the fact that in some situations in life, in this case childbirth, we should ignore the basic desire some of us have to share that experience with another woman? Nope. That's just stoopid.

And what Discobugsacha said.

Evans,

It is 100% NOT the same as a woman being a firefighter, because being a female firefighter does not involve routinely insert things into vulnerable males' orifices.

Please do not tell me to whom I should address my comments - this is a public forum - any comment thrown into the mix can expect a response.

I didn't tell you who you should address your comments to. I was just curious what the motivation for asking someone their reasons was when you have already clearly decided what reasons you consider acceptable, and that anyone who doesn't fall into your category is irrational.

Would the father of the child be fully able to 'share the experience'? (For the sake of argument, let's say the arrangement is cohabiting heterosexual parents on good terms with one another).

I think men are perfectly able to share the experience be they clinician, partner, relative or friend.

Or maybe they should go back to pacing the corridors.

Does that mean that in order to fulfill the idealistic notion of equality we should ignore the fact that in some situations in life, in this case childbirth, we should ignore the basic desire some of us have to share that experience with another woman?

Respecting the wishes of some women who want to have a female midwife is not the same thing as not allowing any man to become one, though, is it?

And as for Disco's post, I'm interested to hear what she - or others - might have to say about female midwives who have not given birth. Should they be barred from the profession as well?

Is it not possible that a man could believe in natural birth, who encouraged me into the poolwho believed in natural birth, encourage women into birthing pools, hold their hand and tell them they could do it?

So on that premise, BakerStreet, every man should insist upon a male doctor (or nurse, which are actually in pretty short supply, possibly because of the prejudices displayed on this thread) performing a male genital examination. They'll also be in for a long wait. That involves a female sometimes inserting something into a male orifice.

For crying out loud