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Original poster

to ask where indyref Part 5 is?

999 replies

grovel · 04/09/2014 14:49

Well?

OP posts:
prettybird · 05/09/2014 23:01

It was, iirc, an amendment to an amendment and won't actually have time to be made law on the current parliamentary session Hmm.

I'm actually impressed that as many people voted on the amendment given it was already doomed to failure as it was - but it was hardly close. Smile

JimMurphysHump · 05/09/2014 23:03

"People with mattresses in their gardens don't win elections"

Wasn't that the quote the RIC are using?

deeedeee · 05/09/2014 23:06

It would depend on what the job was.

God you lot are boring. Will you stop bloody talking about what you earn, how successful you are etched. I really do not care, not care to counter your salary and success with my own even though
I could, Because this debate isn't about money! As much as some of you are trying to make it , it isn't .

It's about engagement! This www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/05/independence-referendum-debate-intoxicated-scotland is what I'm seeing. This is what is happening under your noses while you scoff, stereotype and despair. Yes, I know there's plenty of you despairing together too, but there's as many enjoying the debate, getting excited and finding their voices.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 05/09/2014 23:07

Wasn't that the quote the RIC are using?

It was said by senior pro-uk strategist.

SantanaLopez · 05/09/2014 23:08

Engagement doesn't pay the bloody bills, does it?!

deeedeee · 05/09/2014 23:10

Depends on what bills you have.

squoosh · 05/09/2014 23:10

The debate is individual to each person, to you it's about 'engagement', to others it's about bread and butter issues.

You think they're boring, they may well think you're boring. The point being you can't dictate to others what they should be worried about/excited about.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 05/09/2014 23:11

Engagement doesn't pay the bloody bills, does it?!

Indirectly. The wages we all earn and the sectors we all work in are heavily impacted by government policy.

JimMurphysHump · 05/09/2014 23:12

Yup, ItsAll took me a while to find it there.

If democracy is supposed to be representative of the masses then folk living in council estates in relative poverty surely should be getting the governments they vote for. Or something an awful lot closer than Cameron and his crew.

SantanaLopez · 05/09/2014 23:12

Depends on what bills you have

Yes campaigners don't have food bills or mortgages then? Blimey. Must be real special Hmm

SantanaLopez · 05/09/2014 23:15

If democracy is supposed to be representative of the masses then folk living in council estates in relative poverty surely should be getting the governments they vote for.

No, they shouldn't. The government should be the one with the most votes.

sconequeen · 05/09/2014 23:18

Will you stop bloody talking about what you earn, how successful you are etc. I really do not care, not care to counter your salary and success with my own even though I could, Because this debate isn't about money! As much as some of you are trying to make it , it isn't . It's about engagement!

Well said, deeedeee! Of course we need to pay the bills, personally and as a country and I think that an independent Scotland in charge of its own economy could do that. But this referendum is about so much more. Why not raise your horizons and think about what a fairer society could be like. One in which you won't be sitting in your naice Edinburgh houses glorying in how well you are doing while down the road there are kids living in poverty in a country rich in natural assets but instead being part of a vibrant country where everyone gets the chance to have a decent quality of life?

SantanaLopez · 05/09/2014 23:22

But this referendum is about so much more. One in which you won't be sitting in your naice Edinburgh houses glorying in how well you are doing while down the road there are kids living in poverty in a country rich in natural assets but instead being part of a vibrant country where everyone gets the chance to have a decent quality of life?

Because I don't think independence will produce that country. For me, this referendum can't be about much more because the basic building blocks of it haven't been laid down. The maths doesn't add up. Without that basis, you can't move onto creating that society.

Hope doesn't help poverty.

squoosh · 05/09/2014 23:23

Not everyone lives in 'naice' Edinburgh houses, some of us live in draughty Glasgow tenements.

sconequeen · 05/09/2014 23:25

Hope doesn't help poverty.

I can think of so many ways in which that statement is just plain wrong.

deeedeee · 05/09/2014 23:26

You are always going to spend what you earn . Earn more, pay more bills ( or bigger bills) . Earn less, pay less bills ( or smaller bills)

Anyway.

Have any of you people watched the video I posted a decade or so ago of robin MacAlpin or looked at the common weal yet? I've been desperate for you to scoff at it and rip it to pieces for me

SantanaLopez · 05/09/2014 23:26

I can think of so many ways in which that statement is just plain wrong.

Oh really? You just toddle on down to the East End and tell the children in poverty to hope that breakfast turns up in the morning then.

ChelsyHandy · 05/09/2014 23:28

I'd like to see less of this negative thinking and more admiration of working women who earn 80k. Do you seriously have any idea of how difficult it is for a woman to do that? Scotland is a pretty sexist society, with consistently lower rates of pay for men and women in like work. Do you have any conception of just how stressful it is to put yourself in that position day after day?

Why do you only talk about the poor, the unsuccessful, the downbeat, the downtrodden? You are giving the impression you only care about those who fall into those brackets. That's hardly equality. And you are fooling no-one if you think you make people believe you care. Yes, you care about talking about it, but one HRT is doing far more than any pretty words do to keep those poorer families' food on the table and roof over their heads.

And why have you got this be in your bonnet about living in naice parts of Edinburgh equating to No supporters? I live in the countryside and to give you a small clue, neither Edinburgh (nor Aberdeen) are my closest cities, although I can be required to work in both.

If you are that inaccurate in your assumptions, why would anyone trust your other assumptions?

SantanaLopez · 05/09/2014 23:29

And I don't bloody well live in Edinburgh either.

LadyCordeliaFlyte · 05/09/2014 23:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

deeedeee · 05/09/2014 23:31

Hope can do many things.

I really think sometimes that the people I speak to in this thread suffer from a different kind of poverty.

I started off talking to yous today by saying I wouldn't agree to you all lambasting courage, confidence, optimism and hope. And I'm going to end it that way too!

( in my dreams the referendum ends like the scene at the end if it's a wonderful life where the bankers rip the warrant up and sing Christmas carols. I know you'll hate me for that. Night )

ChelsyHandy · 05/09/2014 23:32

I really do think using poor people and making statements about people buying the last loaf of bread, children not getting breakfast etc to get their own way in a political debate is morally repugnant. Absolutely unethical and dishonest. Go out to work and pay more tax if to support them if you are that concerned.

You know people can't possibly argue against that, because no-one wants to be that evil person WHO SPOKE OUT AGAINST THE BEDROOM TAX or meals on kid's tables. But its a dirty trick, and everyone knows it. So you are using those people for your own ideological gains.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 05/09/2014 23:33

Why do you only talk about the poor, the unsuccessful, the downbeat, the downtrodden? You are giving the impression you only care about those who fall into those brackets. That's hardly equality.

Seriously?! Um, could it be because an 80000k wage is not a hardship, but being poor,unsuccessful,downbeat and downtrodden is?

ChelsyHandy · 05/09/2014 23:34

*Deeedeee I honestly do think I speak for many when I say that I really have heard enough about your dreams. They are not that interesting. Please stop. Its the reading equivalent of trying to eat stringy cheese.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 05/09/2014 23:35

I really do think using poor people and making statements about people buying the last loaf of bread, children not getting breakfast etc to get their own way in a political debate is morally repugnant. Absolutely unethical and dishonest. Go out to work and pay more tax if to support them if you are that concerned.

That'll be because they need help more than you do? And the current welfare system is inadequate