To be shocked that charges have been dropped and Cameron is tweeting happiness about Ayasha case

[Albertatata]

Shocked generally at the way this has been reported. So distrustful of both the medics and police when at the end of the day the parents removed their ill child, took them to a different country without any medical handover, starting an international search and now David Cameron is tweeting that he is relieved charges aren't being brought!

It is undoubtfully a terrible terrible situation but there is a way to behave and this isn't it. Fine if you want to sell your house and access medical care in another country do it, but do it with the guidance and cooperation of the medical team looking after him. Don't bloody run off with him to another country & not tell anyone.

Prepared to be flamed but the fact of the matter is that we have only heard the families side of things and medical team are limited by confidentially.

No, I wouldn't, and yours is a bizarrely hostile response to a pretty calm post. Which kind of proves my point.

I think the idea that parents always know best for their children is as misguided as thinking doctors always know best for their patients.

its not bizarrely hostile and proves no such thing. Your comments were OTT and assumed that we are all act in the same stupid way.

Still proving my point there, grockle, while still not engaging with any of the substantial points in my post.

Happy whether or not the proton therapy would be beneficial is neither here not there, I dont know enough about either treatment to pass opinion on it.

What is the issue is the way the parents were treated over their request. I daresay they were thinking "Well it might not make any difference but it cant hurt to try" and given that they were going to pay for it, I can see their point. If I was them then I would want to try anything and everything just in case. The fact that the hospital stonewalled them, threatened them and then created a fugitive situation with the police making up reasons to arrest and detain them, is what people are pissed off about. There was absolutely no justification in what was done. A simple check up on the child to ensure he was being feed and medicated correctly and was, cancer notwithstanding, in good health would been enough.

And the person who suffered most was the child that the hospital was supposedly so concerned about! Denied the care of his parents and siblings, alone, and probably very frightened.

No, HappySeven, you're wrong. There is a very significant benefit. That being the absence of massive collateral damage caused by conventional radiotherapy. Proton therapy can be targeted much more effectively.

OP yabu

however I thionk David Cameron should STFU too, as unless he is 100% informed he should back off

callme, wow. I am so sorry for your loss. bless you

there is an existing track record of JWs not making medical decisions in the best interests of their children

That is downright offensive! You think that a handful of high profile court battles justifies every single JW should be treated as if they will put their religion above their childs well being?!

There are many people who are not JW's making medical decisions that are not in the best interests of their children, should we all be treated as if we are hostile to the medical system, or just plain stupid?

The fact that the hospital stonewalled them, threatened them and then created a fugitive situation with the police making up reasons to arrest and detain them, is what people are pissed off about.

There's no proof that this is a fact

The parents claim that they were "stonewalled" and "threatened" - this may or may not be the case.

The hospital didn't know what Ashya's care was like, and if he hadn't been getting the right care then he would become seriously ill. That's not "made up".

The substantial points had been said previously and better by others. I focused on the idiotic part of your post.

I've already said, Bogeyface, that I have no doubts of these parents' love for their child, or their wish to do the best for him. I have a faith, and understand what effect faith can have on decision-making, especially when it leads to different interpretations of what is "best" in particular circumstances.

I've also already said that the faith of these parents has not, so far, seemed to have prevented conventional treatment. It's established fact that some JW's faith does do this - ie it's a direct result of how they interpret their faith, not a random occurrence. Nowhere have I said that all JWs block appropriate medical care, just that it is a factor any responsible healthcare provider would consider if there's a crisis.

If there's a crisis involving a child's safety, you have to think of everything that might be a factor, even if only to discount it. If you seriously find this offensive, I genuinely hope you never go into any service which involves child protection.

Well, grockle, calling me "twattish", "stupid" and "idiotic" sure has brought me around to your point of view. Well done!

MsRuff, I'm sorry but you're wrong. I'm a hospital physicist working in a department which is installing a proton facility. I would love to tell you that you are right but it does target the dose better it would not help the patient in this case. Medulloblastoma requires the whole of the brain and spinal fluid to be treated to ensure that no cancer cells go on to spread anywhere else. Whether you deliver that radiation dose with x-rays or protons won't matter as it will all have to receive the treatment dose anyway.

ArcheryAnnie, I liked your link and think he speaks a lot of sense.

I didn't call you twattish in fact,and I called your point idiotic rather than you personally, but it doesn't surprise me if you can't tell the difference.
I also had no interest in converting you to my POV.

I would be outraged to think that religious affiliation of a family, whether JW, Catholic, Muslim, Jewish would affect how they are dealt with by the NHS.
It should not depend on having an approved religion, skin colour or sexual orientation.

There is also a potentially serious issue of Data Protection here, if SGH or the police leaked information about religious affiliation.

The Senior Paediatrician at SGH has said on the radio that the parents were told the hospital could apply for a Court Order if they refused the proposed treatment. Most parents would felt threatened.

He also said they would now refer Ashya to The Proton Treatment Centre in Prague, as the parents have wanted all along. So, the treatment is applicable.
SGH didn't even contact the Czech centre until some days after the family fled. Why couldn't the SGH do this while Ashya was in their care ?

So these "crazy JWs" look more reasonable and truthful all the time.

You implied that their religion would have made a difference in how they would have been treated, that is offensive and illegal. Would it be ok to do that to the entire Jewish population of parents on the basis the some are very othodox and may refuse certain treatments that are not kosher?

No? Thought not.

So is the OP a troll or just a massive arsehole?

Or perhaps they realize that the best answer is to make the referral, and let the Centre in Prague decide whether it is of benefit.

Presumably if the Prague doctors turn the referral down then you'll be taking back your words?

:D

HappySeven, there are a huge amount of scientific scholarly articles stating clearly that proton beam therapy works exceedingly well in the case of paediatric medulloblastoma cases - if you care to google it.

Here's one of the first hits, there are many of them.

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0360301603015748

Can I ask what the doctors would do if an adult refused treatment or sought different treatment to what the doctors wanted to do!

Nothing, of course, unless they had some sort of mental incapacity.

But we, as a society, recognize that children need more protection than adults.

HappySeven Not the only source, but the first one I happened upon.

Reduction in the dose of CRT (Cranial Radiation Therapy), particularly for younger children being treated for medulloblastoma, was also associated with better long-term cognitive function.4 During the intervening years, this strategy has resulted in increasing use of chemotherapy regimens and stem-cell transplantation along with reduced doses or elimination of CRT, with improvement in survival as a consequence.5–7

Proton-beam radiotherapy represents an emerging alternative to conventional photon-beam radiotherapy; the primary advantage is the ability to deliver the optimal dose of radiation to the tumor site while reducing the exposure of surrounding healthy tissue. This advantage results primarily from two factors: first, protons have a larger mass than photons, which results in a narrower beam and targeted delivery that is focused on tumor shape, and second, protons have a limited range of penetration, so structures beyond a planned distance from the tumor target are minimally affected.8 The use of proton-beam radiotherapy thus represents a next step in therapeutic options that are designed to result in the greatest possible survival with the fewest and least severe late effects.9,10 By accomplishing these two goals, it is also assumed that quality of life will be improved for survivors of CNS (Central nervous System) tumors.11

From an article in the Official Journal of the American Society of Clinical Oncology entitled Proton-Beam Radiation Therapy and Health-Related Quality of Life in Children With CNS Tumors

The SGH should have contacted the Czech centre while Ashya was still at the SGH.
If the parents then wanted to pay for treatment that is only of comparable quality, not better, that is their right.

If the Czech doctors had said Ashya could not be treated to a comoarable standard, the situation would have been entirely different: the parents would hopefully have accepted this. If not, that would be the time, not to make threats, but to start the legal process.

I would be outraged to think that religious affiliation of a family, whether JW, Catholic, Muslim, Jewish would affect how they are dealt with by the NHS.

Except if you have a faith (and I do have a faith) it can be a factor in how medical matters affect you, and how you respond to medical issues. Many people of faith actually do request specific treatment, - eg in terms of nutrition, of whether it is a man or a woman healthcare professional who looks after you, how soon your body is processed after you die, and so on and so forth. Some schools of Islamic thought permit (and even require) organ donation, some ban it altogether. If an ambulance is called out to my motorcycle accident, it's relevant for those rushing to treat me to know if I'm a devout Sikh man and thus may not have worn a helmet. If xenotranplantation ever becomes a regular thing, it may be necessary for the doctors to know that I'm Jewish or Muslim and thus may not want to be implanted with pig organs. If I am pregnant as a result of rape, if I am also a devout Catholicism this may add another dimension to the medical decisions I make and the care I will require.

Equality in what is offereed in heathcare, absolutely, but to pretend that people's strongly-held faiths have no impact at all on either their health, or what services they require from the NHS, is a nonsense.