To be shocked that charges have been dropped and Cameron is tweeting happiness about Ayasha case

[Albertatata]

Shocked generally at the way this has been reported. So distrustful of both the medics and police when at the end of the day the parents removed their ill child, took them to a different country without any medical handover, starting an international search and now David Cameron is tweeting that he is relieved charges aren't being brought!

It is undoubtfully a terrible terrible situation but there is a way to behave and this isn't it. Fine if you want to sell your house and access medical care in another country do it, but do it with the guidance and cooperation of the medical team looking after him. Don't bloody run off with him to another country & not tell anyone.

Prepared to be flamed but the fact of the matter is that we have only heard the families side of things and medical team are limited by confidentially.

YABU. I will assume you have never had a child with a life threatening illness and the utter depths of despair and desperation you sink to.

The medics said he didn't have enough battery but he did, they said he wouldn't be getting enough nutrients however the parents done a video to show he did.

The parents have had a huge miscarriage of justice towards them, and thanks to that missed a few precious days in their sons life.

They may not have sold the flat, but the clinic would have taken the deeds in exchange for treatment.

the hospital wouldn't know what the parents had for their son though if he hadn't been discharged, so I can see why they had to act.

But what happened to make the parents feel that they had to take their son without discharging him?

That's surely the issue?

YABU and clearly haven't read much other than perhaps the Sun. The parents were threatened with losing parental rights if they discharged the child, even though the NHS had said he was going to die anyway. It is not as though he was going to be miraculously cured by staying in hospital in the UK- all they were offering him was palliative care, he was going to be there to die, possibly without his parents. It is absolutely right for charges to be dropped, because in both written law and the law of basic human decency, they have done nothing wrong in seeking a treatment which may have helped their son (maybe not, but if they wanted to try it was their right and their son's).

Actually, yes, I fucking have had a child with a potentially (though luckily not) terminal illness. I have also been a child (albeit it in my 20's) with a potentially terminal illness.

I wouldn't have acted that way.

My parents wouldn't have acted that way.

YABVVVU, would you like to see them banged up for life?
Don't you think they are living every parents worst nightmare? Isn't that enough suffering?

OP - I take it you have never come across arrogant doctors who think they know it all but actually don't. I have, which is why this family have my support in the decision they made.

What on earth do you mean, Bulbasaur?

"Many times I have heard that parent having explain what their child's disability is." "Disability =/= terminal illness. Disabilities are different in that they are life long, TYPICALLY NOT MEDICALLY DEPENDENT, and affect different people differently. Yes, a parent with an ASD child probably knows how their child's ASD is affecting them that day."

So with a stroke of your pen keyboard you are completely discounting paraplegia, quadriplegia, cerebral palsy, spina bifida, muscular dystrophy, cardiac abnormalities, paralysis, cystic fibrosis, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

Do you have any idea of the depth of knowledge and the huge amount of care provision that parents, friends and families must have/provide in meeting the needs of these children (including when they are in hospital)?

Do you know about the medically dependent needs of many of these disabled children?

For those criticising the Spanish authorities - there was a valid European Arrest Warrant out for them. They were required to act on it. They don't get a say in that. Admittedly the whole thing was a circus, but hard to assess to what extent they can be blamed for the attention.

YABU.

I hope they reunite with their son ASAP.

I think it's heard to judge on what we know. But from what we do know, while having a great deal of sympathy with the parents who must have been desperate, I don't think they did the right thing. Of course, I can see why they did what they did and would hate to be in their shoes. However sorry I feel for them, I still don't think they acted in the right way. That said, clearly the relationship between the medical team and the family had broken down, so there is a fair degree of blame to borne there too.

I think removing your sick child from a hospital without informing medical staff was always going to end in an alarm being raised. The family must have known that. The medical team had little choice- the little boy was removed from the hospital without the parents informing anyone- the reason for that doesn't change the ultimate outcome. How were the medical team to know whether the parents had the appropriate equipment or not? The parents hadn't told them of their plans nor what measures/equipment they had put in place. The hospital are obliged to raise the alarm in those situations.

Can you imagine the outcry if the medical team hadn't done anything, shrugged their shoulders and said "oh well, who knows where Aysha is or what's happening him but let's ignore that and move on to the next patient" and then something had gone wrong? Would we all be saying "it's up to the parents and they have the right to remove him. Nothing to do with the hospital team". I Doubt it- the hospital would be being hauled over the coals for not following correct procedures.

The medical team have an obligation to make an application to the courts for the child to be made a ward of court if they feel the parents are not acting in the child's best interests . The team appear to have felt the parents were pushing for a futile treatment, which would have caused suffering for little benefit and did not think the family were able to care for him at home. The court are not obliged to grant that order and I think it is fair enough to question whether the hospital team's views were correct. I genuinely don't know as we don't have enough information.

All of that said, it doesn't seem right that they were arrested- my understanding is that was the only way to enable foreign police forces to help search for the family. Still, it seems unfair and counterproductive.

Disclaimer: I am a doctor, although not a paediatrician or oncologist. I have no specialist knowledge on this subject, but I was listening to an interview with a specialist on the radio who thought it highly unlikely that the proton beam therapy the family wanted would be suitable, which is why the medical team in Southampton declined to offer it. I don't know if this is correct or not, admittedly, but if that is the case you can see why it wasn't funded. I understand why the family would hold onto any hope, even a slim one, and the medical team should have offered a 2nd opinion (if they didn't).

However, the boy's grandmother stated the family hadn't been informed of this- which suggests that communication and trust between the family and the medical team was poor. That is a failing from the medical teams point of view and contributed to the situation ending the way it did. This needs to be addressed.

Overall, a sad situation with an outcome that has been pretty awful all round.

The OP can't even spell his name properly. She has no idea his parents plan was to sell their house. Seems to know bugger all about the case.

Perhaps do a bit of research next time you want to start a goady thread OP?

You live a charmed life if this is what you find shocking.

'I wouldn't behave that way.' Well, good for you.

So with a stroke of your pen keyboard you are completely discounting paraplegia, quadriplegia, cerebral palsy, spina bifida, muscular dystrophy, cardiac abnormalities, paralysis, cystic fibrosis, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

I don't believe I ever said that. Nice try though.

Are those terminal illnesses? Are they dependent on medical care (actual treatments, not caretakers and equipment) to keep them alive? Are they curable? No? Then stop trying to be righteously outraged for the sake of it.

Let's not start getting disingenuous here and try to pretend something like cancer or tumors are disabilities instead of a (potentially) curable illness.

There's a huge difference between a life long disability that needs medical equipment to function day to day and a person that is medically dependent on the hospital to survive.

A brain tumor is not a disability. It is a terminal illness that is unpredictable and could go south at any moment. A person that is not a doctor cannot tell how a tumor is doing, they cannot tell how a virus is spreading, and they cannot tell how brain activity is doing.

is that why carers get £60 a week? Because he has lived what we do.......

I am totally with you OP. YANBU. From what I have read the parents were at liberty to take there son for treatment elsewhere but chose to inform nobody and just walk out of the hospital.
The PM is just getting on the band wagon and trying to increase his popularity in the run up to the next election.

Their son was dying. I can't even begin to imagine how they must have felt.

Nobody has the right to judge what they did unless they have been in that position.

Desperation can make people do what may seem like reckless actions to outsiders but I don't think for one minute what they did was neglectful. They were trying to save the life of their child.

I would do anything for my son and no doubt they were doing what they thought was best for theirs.

Parents dealing with terminally ill children know what is best for the child and know what they want for their child.

I think it's awful the way in which the parents were treated. Where are people's understanding and compassion?

Bulbasaur, you're being simplistic. Cancer treatment is hit and miss - there will be a standard treatment protocol that will be followed, no way of knowing whether the individual child will respond until they try it. Just because a treatment isn't offered by the NHS, doesn't mean it isn't better. And what is offered by the NHS carries no guarantee of success either.

Whast the parents were proposing to do isn't that unusual. What is uncertain is how they were frightened into believing that their only option was to run away with their son.

Are those [paraplegia, quadriplegia, cerebral palsy, spina bifida, muscular dystrophy, cardiac abnormalities, paralysis, cystic fibrosis, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.] terminal illnesses?

Sometimes.

Are they dependent on medical care (actual treatments, not caretakers and equipment) to keep them alive?

In some cases. A lot of the disabilities mentioned above will require medication, physiotherapy, surgery to keep the person alive.

Are they curable? No?

How are you defining curable? A grade 4 medulloblastoma is often incurable. And survivors will often be left with long term disability, it isn't as simple as alive vs dead. Some cardiac abnormalities are very curable with surgery. Some very complicated abnormalities are potentially curable.

Yabvvvvu, they were released because they did nothing wrong. They dud not deny their son medical treatment but wanted to have a treatment that would prolong his life, even cure him. Medics do get it wrong, they are not infallible. How much of their decision was made on cost rather than need, it really is a postcode lottery of what treatment you will receive. Who are you to judge op! Have you walked in their shoes!

The UK has one of the worst cancer survival rates in Europe and one of the highest death rates for Under-fives, for whom cancer is a leading cause of death, so it's not crazy to go abroad for more advanced treatment.

Ashya's father contacted the Czech Proton Therapy Centre on 20 August.
A doctor there has now stated:

. "Regarding Ashya's tumour, the medulloblastoma, proton therapy is a suitable treatment for children.
. "It allows clinicians to destroy only what they need to and it is safer and gentler than conventional radiotherapy.
. "It's targeted treatment so it doesn't irradiate critical organs and tissues that don't need it.
. "It is undoubtedly the treatment of the future and for many tumours like this it is the treatment of today.

The lawyer representing the hospital trust has now said
. Though the doctors did not believe it had "any benefit" for Ashya, the trust had no objection to proton therapy as it was "no better or worse than radiotherapy".

Sounds like second thoughts there !

"I don't believe I ever said that. Nice try though"

It certainly seemed to me that the only disability you were referring to was ASD.

"Yes, a parent with an ASD child probably knows how their child's ASD is affecting them that day"

All of the disabilities I referred to are very, very frequently typically medically dependent as opposed to "typically not medically dependent".

"Are those terminal illnesses?"

Many of these children will die (as children), sometimes from associated terminal illness, sometimes from terminal progression of their disability.

"Are they dependent on medical care (actual treatments, not caretakers and equipment) to keep them alive?"

Yes, often. Both at home and in hospital.

"Are they curable?"

Associated illness often is. Even beyond associated illnesses, in many cases forms of remission can be offered. In a few cases, much greater hope can be given, for example, through transplants.

"Let's not start getting disingenuous here and try to pretend something like cancer or tumors are disabilities instead of a (potentially) curable illness."

I have no idea who tried to pretend that. The only poster I recall saying it was you.

"Then stop trying to be righteously outraged for the sake of it"

How dramatic! I don't actually think there was anything 'outraged' about my post, 'righteous' or otherwise.

YABU. Thank god common sense and compassion seem to be prevailing.