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AIBU?

To be shocked that charges have been dropped and Cameron is tweeting happiness about Ayasha case

239 replies

Albertatata · 02/09/2014 19:46

Shocked generally at the way this has been reported. So distrustful of both the medics and police when at the end of the day the parents removed their ill child, took them to a different country without any medical handover, starting an international search and now David Cameron is tweeting that he is relieved charges aren't being brought!

It is undoubtfully a terrible terrible situation but there is a way to behave and this isn't it. Fine if you want to sell your house and access medical care in another country do it, but do it with the guidance and cooperation of the medical team looking after him. Don't bloody run off with him to another country & not tell anyone.

Prepared to be flamed but the fact of the matter is that we have only heard the families side of things and medical team are limited by confidentially.

OP posts:

Report

Maryz · 03/09/2014 00:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Icimoi · 03/09/2014 00:06

So you are saying the parents imagined the whole thing?

Gawd, you're misrepresenting me again, Maryz. Please try not to. Since when does a statement that the parents probably misunderstood equate to a statement that they imagined the whole thing?

As I've also said elsewhere, one possible - and I emphasise again that it's pure speculation - scenario is that the parents had a conversation with someone about various possibilities and asked what would happen if they refused consent to treatment. If they were talking to doctors, they would have had the whole conversation about hoping that it wouldn't come to that, we'd like to resolve everything by agreement etc; but if we were really, really concerned that your child might be in danger we might have to ask the court to decide. Or they might have had the conversation with someone other than a doctor. And they might have misunderstood that to mean what the father said, which is that they were threatened by a doctor with a court order if they so much as looked for a second opinion.

It's that last version - i.e. what the father says - that I find almost wholly improbable, because it's so utterly stupid, and could only leave the doctor with egg all over his face - which doctors tend not to like.

And I emphasise yet again that we've only heard one side of this story, it would be dangerous to assume that the parents have powers of 100% factual recall, and the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

Icimoi · 03/09/2014 00:09

Icimoi I agree that the hospital had a duty of care and they did need to raise the alarm. I think that most peoples issue isnt with that but with the heavy handed way it was dealt with afterwards.

As I've said, Bogeyface, I totally agree. Except that people who say things like the hospital should be ashamed of calling the police apparently do have an issue.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/09/2014 00:11

ici You need to ask spero on the other thread why she thinks there might be a legal case. I'm a scientist, not a lawyer

Looking at the science, the chances of survival appear to be the same with both treatments, but the proton treatment kills off fewer healthy brain cells, so much better longterm quality of life.

The threat of legal force was a stupid, arrogant misjudgement which panicked the parents (ok, others might have just given in)
A parent who thinks they MAY be forced to let their child suffer unnecessary brain damage might not hang around debating.

To answer what the hospital should have done after making one big mistake:
don't make a 2nd big mistake.

They should have promised publicly to cooperate with the Czech Centre and send them Ashya's medical records, but also made an order requiring Ashya to be checked briefly at the nearest hospital, to make sure he was ok.

Icimoi · 03/09/2014 00:13

Baffled by the fact that you could think that the parents misunderstood the hospital to such an extent.

But people are coming on here pointing out that people in their situation don't necessarily take everything in properly. Why is it so impossible that they misunderstood, Maryz? Is that so much more unlikely than a doctor making a ridiculous claim that he could get a court order banning parents from seeing their dangerously ill child just because they asked for a second opinion, and assuming he'd never be found out?

Icimoi · 03/09/2014 00:15

I've seen people sue successfully for being stopped for alleged shoplifting.

But that's not a negligence claim, which is what the poster I was responding to was suggesting.

These parents might possibly have a claim in respect of their imprisonment, but that would be an unlawful detention/deprivation of liberty claim. As I've said, I agree that the arrest warrant shouldn't have been issued.

Icimoi · 03/09/2014 00:17

BigChoc, I agree that there could be a potential claim, but not against the hospital, and not a negligence claim.

Icimoi · 03/09/2014 00:18

The threat of legal force was a stupid, arrogant misjudgement which panicked the parents (ok, others might have just given in)

IF that threat was actually made. It's not clear that it was.

Bogeyface · 03/09/2014 00:34

IF that threat was actually made. It's not clear that it was.

The father said it was and he named the person who made the threat. If the threat then I am sure the doctor concerned would have made it clear by now the Mr King was lying. And given the events following the family leaving the country I think it would be naive to think that the threat was never made.

Bogeyface · 03/09/2014 00:35

Sorry, random C&P on the tab

"If the threat had not been made then...."

MrsRuffdiamond · 03/09/2014 00:36

IF that threat was actually made. It's not clear that it was.

The father said it was, and no-one from the hospital has denied it.

MrsRuffdiamond · 03/09/2014 00:37

oops. x post.

Aeroflotgirl · 03/09/2014 00:49

I agree, Southampton Hospital are saying now that they would have supported the family in Proton beam therapy abroad, then why if this is the case, the parents felt the need to take the child out of hospital for this treatment without informing the Drs or hospital staff? Funny how they change their tune when it is all out in the public!

Icimoi · 03/09/2014 01:09

The father said it was and he named the person who made the threat. If the threat then I am sure the doctor concerned would have made it clear by now the Mr King was lying

No, he can't, due to his duty of patient confidentiality.

steff13 · 03/09/2014 02:41

How does saying, "Mr. King is mistaken," or, "At no time did I imply that a court order would be sought," or something of that nature breach confidentiality? What exactly would be the breach?

DoctorTwo · 03/09/2014 07:11

His parents have been released from prison. About time too, they did nothing wrong.

MissPenelopeLumawoo · 03/09/2014 08:10

Icimoi- on the one hand you say the doctor would not have threatened the father as he seemed so clued up and would apparently have time to check out his legal position whilst spending all day at the hospital with his son and all night at home googling treatments for him. Yet on the other hand this seemingly clued up father 'misunderstood' the threats of legal action which the hospital apparently made. Which is it- is he 'clued up ' or not? I believe the parents rather than the hospital, because if the hospital were co-operating with their wishes the parents would have had no need to flee.

Incidentally, I have had cause to access legal advice before, if you ask a solicitor for their opinion on a situation , often they will cover their backs by saying- 'well theoretically it is possible that they could obtain a court order over this'. The person listening, not experienced in the law will possibly take that to mean that yes, they could do this. IME it is rare for a lawyer to 100% commit themselves that something is not legally possible.

OwlCapone · 03/09/2014 08:14

The OP can't even spell his name properly. She has no idea his parents plan was to sell their house. Seems to know bugger all about the case.

THis.

MrsDeVere · 03/09/2014 08:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MyFairyKing · 03/09/2014 08:15

icimoi I've seen you on most of the threads about Ashya; why are you so fixated on the fact that the parents must be lying?! I would not be in the slightest bit surprised if a doctor threatened a protection order. I've seen similar happen many times before.

ICanSeeTheSun · 03/09/2014 08:18

Patients notes are not hard to get on a ward level, the notes are left on a trolley around the nurses station.

Who is to say the parents didn't take the notes with them, or if not that wrote down everything the doctors have said to them.

GimmeMySquash · 03/09/2014 08:26

The Dr probably got a shock to be named in the video and in the court order that the Judge made public.

I hope that Ashya doesn't spend another day alone.

MrsDeVere · 03/09/2014 08:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

littlejohnnydory · 03/09/2014 08:38

I can well believe that the Consultant could have been throwing his weight around and threatening the family with a court order. I've seen similar things happen, as a patient and a professional.

DoctorTwo · 03/09/2014 09:00

The prize for the most ignorant, arrogant and downright cuntish OP (not a personal attack, I am talking about the thing, not the person) of the fucking YEAR goes to......

Yeah, this one

Couldn't agree more. Bashing parents with no evidence whatsoever is utterly cuntish behaviour. Especially when they've broken no laws.

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