To be shocked that charges have been dropped and Cameron is tweeting happiness about Ayasha case

[Albertatata]

Shocked generally at the way this has been reported. So distrustful of both the medics and police when at the end of the day the parents removed their ill child, took them to a different country without any medical handover, starting an international search and now David Cameron is tweeting that he is relieved charges aren't being brought!

It is undoubtfully a terrible terrible situation but there is a way to behave and this isn't it. Fine if you want to sell your house and access medical care in another country do it, but do it with the guidance and cooperation of the medical team looking after him. Don't bloody run off with him to another country & not tell anyone.

Prepared to be flamed but the fact of the matter is that we have only heard the families side of things and medical team are limited by confidentially.

[lemmein]

The fact that we even know the parents are Jehovah witnesses suggests to me that the hospital were trying to sway both the police and the public into believing the family had ulterior motives other than doing the best for their child. It seems the medics were totally aware that the parents were seeking BETTER treatment, not NO treatment - leaking their religious beliefs when they knew it had no relevance to the parents removing their child stinks and is a massive breach of confidentiality imo.

I'm glad they are back with their boy, YABU!

[ICanSeeTheSun]

I have a huge folder of DS notes everything from every assessment he has ever had done. I have written who I have spoken to and times and date and the purpose for the call or the appointment.

[Aeroflotgirl]

Just goes to show how the heavy handed big brother authorities were wrong. They twisted the situation against the parents and made them in a bad light. If tgey were guilty of neglect they would not be released without charge, all of a sudden the boys medical notes have been transferred to the Proton beam clinic in Prague so he will be going there to receive treatment. If the doctors had done this in the first place, nine of this would have happened.

[Aeroflotgirl]

Op tge medical professionals were not cooperating or helping, in fact it is understood that there was going to be a protection order over the boy, hence that's what the parents did what they did for the boy to get treatment that could save him. Of course the professionals do not want to paint themselves in a bad light to the media and to the world,and are trying to save face.

[GoblinLittleOwl]

Not read all the posts on this, just the first and last pages, and don't intend to, judging by the offensive language used at the top of this page(6).
Just to say I entirely agree with Albertatata's original post; the parents were criminally stupid to remove a seriously sick child from medical care and subject him to a drive of hundreds of miles, without even a discussion with the clinic they were taking him to, whatever their motivation.
The assumption that parents know best what is right for their child against the judgement of highly qualified, experienced and above all, objective specialists is so flawed. Having experienced a father refusing permission for his child to have a life-saving operation because he was a Jehovah's Witness, their religion was relevant, and I think the medical authorities acted in the only way possible. (The child was made a ward of court by the intervention of the surgeon and the mother and his life saved, but the father left the family and never forgave them.)

[Bogeyface]

Goblin

At no point have the parents refused treatment for their son, so no their religion doesnt have any relevance at all. If they were citing being JW as a reason to not allow their son to be treated then you may have a point but they're not and your reaction to them being JW is exactly what the media have been trying to incite. JW object to blood transfusion, not cancer treatment.

And given that the child had the same level of care from his parents as he was receiving in hospital, I fail to see how that is "criminally stupid". What is criminally stupid is denying a sick boy any access to his family, putting him in an unfamiliar place with people who speak a different language and no one to speak or advocate for him.

Forget whether the parents did the right thing (personally I think they were a little naive to think they could just up and leave, but I understand their motivations), what the authorities did to that child was inhuman.

[Molio]

Goblin I don't believe there is any criminal offence of stupidity.

When, as non medics, we seriously questioned the treatment being given to one of the DC, we too were threatened with a protection order. A very heavy handed policewoman was involved and issued dark threats about the consequences of questioning doctors. I wasn't easily cowed, and had I been seeking treatment abroad and was in a position to do so, I would most likely have acted in precisely in the same way as the Kings. I don't consider it stupid at all. They appear to have been quite able to judge the strength of their son, who appears to have survived the journey well. And the outcome has actually been very successful in persuading the hospital to do a U turn over treatment. In my case I went to law and won, but then I was seeking alternative treatment in the UK.

[Aeroflotgirl]

Exactly bogey in this case religion was totally irrelevant, they were not refusing medical treatment, but alternative treatment. They purchased the necessary equipment needed for him. Religion was used to tar them with the same brush and paint them in a bad light. Doctors do not always know best. If the doctors had supported them like they said they would, then none of this would have happened. The parents did nothing wrong, they were released without charge, now he is going to get the treatment that could save him. Doctors do not know everything!

[ICanSeeTheSun]

Goblin we don't have to bow to what a doctor thinks is the best treatment.

[CaptainFracasse]

Gobblin I would use the same wording than the OP

so distrustful of both the medics and police and replace medics and police by the Court of Justice.
The Court, who has all the information necessary, including the ones from the medics actually thinks that there is no case and there is a need to investigate the information given by the Hospital.
So what about trusting the Court instead. And saying 'well, they clearly weren't guilty and did nothing wrong as per the Court judgement'??

we have only heard the families side of things and medical team are limited by confidentially which is why you can't make a judgement either of whether they are guilty of any offense or not. Why is also why you can't make a judgement on whether their actions were the right ones for their son.

As for parents not being able to make a decision regarding their dc health.... I'm lost for words. Are you really saying that you would accept anything that a person of authority is saying just because they are in that job? Have you not ever heard of difference of opinions between the medical professionals or error in judgement? Do you think that these people are god and never make any mistakes? Or that they never let their own prejudices guiding their reactions?
Seriously, they are JUST doctors. They can make mistakes.

AND, that's not even going into the discussion on whether they truly have the 'proof' that their pov is getter than another. (ie so called 'evidence based' decision)

[lemmein]

Goblin - the case to which you refer is entirely different!

If ayasha's parents were refusing treatment I think the public opinion would be very different. They were seeking better treatment.

Your post just highlights my point; they leaked their religious beliefs knowing the public mostly have a dim view of JW's where medical decisions/consent are concerned. It's irrelevant in this case.

[CaptainFracasse]

And the religion had nothing to do with it (but might have had a lot to do with the way the doctors reacted as per your own reaction ....) as they were not preventing treatment but wanted a different treatment. Nowhere near the same as the case you mentioned.

[wowfudge]

These are intelligent parents with the best intentions for their sick child.

My understanding is that they investigated an alternative treatment to that being proposed by the hospital, but the hospital stonewalled them to the extent that they were worried their opposition to the hospital's views on the treatment of the child and the deteriorating relationship as a consequence would lead to the little boy being made a ward of court - i.e. the hospital would take control of the situation and the parents would potentially not even be allowed to see him. They were desperate and left the country to organise the treatment they wanted for him.

The hospital has publicy apologised for the breakdown in the relationship with the parents.

He wasn't 'smuggled' out of the hospital as was reported - they did know he had been removed - and it was 6 hours after the event that the hospital contacted the police to report it. Perhaps the hospital was worried it owed a duty of care to the child; who knows. The police then issued a European arrest warrant for the parents on a charge of child neglect - which it has been admitted was a trumped up charge, but the only way they could hope to find them and get the family back to the UK. The Spanish authorities acted in line with the arrest warrant as they were required to do.

The police have handled this appallingly and have had to back down after spending goodness knows how much public money on the whole farago.

We don't know the financial circumstances of the family, but the treatment they wanted and had researched could have been sanctioned by the NHS - but the hospital refused. The treatment is more costly than the radiation therapy the hospital wanted the child to have.

The sad fact is that the amount of public funds this has cost could have paid for the treatment several times over.

[AutumnIsComing]

the parents were criminally stupid to remove a seriously sick child from medical care and subject him to a drive of hundreds of miles, without even a discussion with the clinic they were taking him to, whatever their motivation.

^ are you sure they did this?

transparencyproject.org.uk/ashya-king/

Ashya is a 5 year old boy who has been undergoing treatment for a brain tumour, whose parents removed him from Southampton General Hospital against medical advice on Thurs 28 August 2014. On20 August 2014 Ashya’s parents had made a request to a hospital in Prague to provide an alternative treatment to him, not available in the UK [source BBC].

What concerns me is the amount of information in public domain that paint the DP in a bad light - which then turns out not to be true or is irrelevant. The whole idea of medical consent being banded about was very bizarre.

I suppose though my family have twice encountered situations where HCP haven't been professional that with so I do know though rare it happens.

In both cases it was other HCP who picked up this up and urged us to complain a sit did impact negatively on outcomes. In one case hospital records went missing when a complain was made - in another management picked up inconsistencies and found that lies about test results and timing and treatments had been put in the medical records - which they took very seriously and it was followed up - though it was shocking how blatant it was and how easily it was proven wrong.

IME even though we had other HCP on our side we have encountered people who think we must have been in the wrong. In practise it was a frightening and very distressing place to be.

I have no idea how the HC have behaved here - but actually questioning medical treatment and advice and seeking alternatives doesn't seem odd to me at all.

[Tokoloshe]

If they were threatened with a court order, why didn't they speak to a lawyer? A very brief conversation would have shown that a court order is only possible if it can be shown that the parents actions are damaging their child.

So, tell the medics you're refusing consent for treatment. That you're taking him home, if you like. Put it in writing.

The hospital does, or doesn't apply to the court for child to be made a ward of court.

If the parent's actions are damaging to the child, the order is granted, though that doesn't stop them spending time with him (unless they are threatening to hospital staff).

If the parent's action isn't damaging to the child, then the hospital's application is thrown out.

Sadly, not all parents make decisions in their child's best interests, no matter how much they love them. That is why there is a process to deal with these sorts of disagreements.

[SaucyJack]

" The assumption that parents know best what is right for their child against the judgement of highly qualified, experienced and above all, objective specialists is so flawed. "

And the assumption that UK doctors know what is best for a patient against the judgement of highly qualified, experienced and objective specialists from other countries is equally as flawed. People have said it before but I'll say it again; they took him out of the UK to get different and quite possible better treatment abroad.

Neither Spain nor the Czech Republic are third world countries with limited medical care. Spain is at least equal with the UK, and from I now know the CR seems to have much more advanced treatment available.

If they'd been taking him to LA for some sort of woo crystal therapy or West Africa to have the cancer exorcised by a witch doctor some of you might have a point. But they weren't, so you don't.

[MrsRuffdiamond]

That's all very well, Tokoloshe, but I think we all know that in any dispute with hospitals, if the hospital states that in their opinion the parents' actions (in this case not being willing to consent to aggressive radiotherapy, and asking for a delay to arrange alternative treatment) are damaging to the child, more often than not the court (with little or no knowledge of the medical complexities involved in individual cases) is likely to rely on the opinion of the health professionals, rather than parents, whose often considerable expertise will be largely dismissed.

[Molio]

Exactly MrsRuff.

[HappySeven]

Proton therapy is no better for medulloblastoma than conventional radiotherapy. For some small tumours it is beneficial and these cases can be sent abroad for treatment. As conventional radiotherapy is the gold standard for this child's illness it would make sense that the doctors in Southampton did not see the benefit of referring him abroad. It does not mean that he cannot be treated with protons just that there will be no benefit.

[saintlyjimjams]

How about you get to decide what way to behave when its your child that is dying in front of you

This. x1000

Some seem very naive about the procedures in place. I have seen people suggesting they should have gone through official complaint channels. I have an official complaint in at the moment after actions of the LA left my son damaged - I started the complaint in April. We're about to have out first meeting the month. I have the luxury of time while those involved play silly buggers & try to covere their arses. These parents didn't. If you back someone into a corner, refuse to communicate with them & time is running out for their child they will do something desperate. It's not rocket science.

Anyway I wish him well & I hope this case raises serious concerns & questions & there's some reflection going on in SGH right now.

[ArcheryAnnie]

Did you see this article by a doctor who looks after children with cancer, talking about the ways that parents - for very understandable reasons, in the depths of despair - don't always behave in the best interests of their children, whatever their best intentions? www.telegraph.co.uk/health/11068128/Ashya-King-should-be-treated-in-Britain.html

The parents may well love their child more than the sun, the moon and the stars, but they are people undergoing severe trauma, not people with medical expertise, and their actions will reflect that. If they take off without making the proper arrangements, they cannot be all that surprised that the hospital (rightly) raised the alarm. There is in this case the added complication of them being Jehovah's Witnesses - these parents don't seem to have objected to what medical treatment their son has had so far, but there is an existing track record of JWs not making medical decisions in the best interests of their children, and I'd be surprised if this wasn't taken into account.

If the hospital had shrugged their shoulders, and the child had died, we'd all now be baying for their blood.

All we have heard in the media is how wonderful the parents are, and how evil the authorities are. I'm not disputing how much the parents love their child, and want to do the best for him, but I would dispute that they are the only ones acting in the child's interests.

[grocklebox]

You might be "baying for blood" based on media reports, but please dont assume we'd all be as twattish.