To be shocked that charges have been dropped and Cameron is tweeting happiness about Ayasha case

[Albertatata]

Shocked generally at the way this has been reported. So distrustful of both the medics and police when at the end of the day the parents removed their ill child, took them to a different country without any medical handover, starting an international search and now David Cameron is tweeting that he is relieved charges aren't being brought!

It is undoubtfully a terrible terrible situation but there is a way to behave and this isn't it. Fine if you want to sell your house and access medical care in another country do it, but do it with the guidance and cooperation of the medical team looking after him. Don't bloody run off with him to another country & not tell anyone.

Prepared to be flamed but the fact of the matter is that we have only heard the families side of things and medical team are limited by confidentially.

[Icimoi]

The medics in Southampton should be ashamed at calling in the police.

So, Mollo, put yourself into the medics' pace. You are responsible for the medical care of a child who has undergone brain surgery and who is still very poorly. One day he goes off with his parents and doesn't reappear, and you can't make contact with any of his family. You know that he can't eat normally and needs a machine. You don't know what, if anything, the family has by way of feed, equipment, medication and sterilisation, you know that the machine has a limited battery life and you don't know whether the family can plug it in anywhere, particularly if they're travelling - which is likely.

Do you think in those circumstances you might, just might, call the police? Would you be wrong to do so?

[BigChocFrenzy]

The parents fled, to avoid Ashya receiving treatment which would cause severe brain damage.
They had to finance the proton treatment by selling their house first.
Now a cancer charity have promised to fund it and the Czech Proton Centre have said they'll treat him before payment anyway.

What should have happened:
. The hospital send Ashya's details to the Czech centre while the parents sort out finance
. Ashya stays in hospital until everything ready

Unfortunately, the doctor responsible wan't prepared to do this.

On the other thread, spero, who most of us know to have legal expertise in child protection, seems to be saying the parents have a legal case for negligence. She actually seems quite keen for them to sue !

[Bogeyface]

In particular they don't seem to have had any real plan for interim care for the indefinite period whilst they got things organised.

Given that they had been told that there son was going to die, I would like to know what you think the care plan should have been? They were not denying him life saving treatment, they were seeking it. There was, according to the UK hospital, no hope for him so what treatment could have been offered? None.

They had food for him and the same pain relief the hospital was offering (Calpol). The care plan should be about keeping the boy comfortable, happy and fed, and they were doing that. What they did with Ashya was no different from what the hospital had been doing and yet because they were parents and not doctors, you deem that as not good enough?

By removing Ashya from his parents and denying them access only 1 person suffered, Ashya. He was put into a hospital he didnt know, staffed by people who speak a different language and was not even allowed to be visited by his parents and siblings. On what planet is the a good idea for a terminally ill child?!

The parents, misguided as they may be, did what they did out of love. The same cannot be said for the doctor, hospital, police or Spanish authorities.

[Icimoi]

The hospital is saying that NOW. It is clear from Mr King that they were saying something else to him, which is why he felt forced to flee. It is funny how you are prepared to believe everything the hospital says, as if they would never have a reason to lie.

Apparently it's come out that they did make contact with the Czech hospital before the parents disappeared.

It's funny that you are prepared to believe everything the father says, as if he couldn't possibly be mistaken.

Just to make it clear, I don't agree with the OP about the arrest warrant. I don't think it should have been issued, and I certainly think that the parents should have been allowed to stay with their child whilst the wardship issue is sorted out. I don't think everything the hospital did was right - clearly there were problems with communication. But I don't think everything is as black and white as some posters seem to think, I don't think we should leap to judgment on the basis of one side of the story only. I suspect the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

[AskBasil]

But icimoi, the circumstances you describe aren't the circs of the hospital.

That level of bafflement probably didn't exist.

I suspect that the motive for the hospital to lie, is much stronger than the motive for the parents to lie.

[BigChocFrenzy]

Don't know if they'd win the case or even want the extra hassle.

[AskBasil]

Oh god I hate this idea that the truth is always somewhere in the middle.

No it's not. Quite often, it's way out on a limb.

Anyway I'm off to bed. Good night.

[BigChocFrenzy]

The Czech Centre said they still have not received Ashya's medical records.

[Icimoi]

Icimoi You are right in saying that the order would not have been granted. Does that mean that the doctor who was questioned didnt say it? A threat is something you use to get someone to do what you want, I expect that the Dr thought they would say "Oh ok, we will do as we are told", but that didnt happen. And he didnt not respond to one email but several.

There are some threats people make even though they know they won't follow through, but not if they know that there is every chance that it will be exposed as a totally empty threat They knew they were dealing with a clued-up family who were checking things on the internet - they could have found out very easily from that, or talking to family, friends or other medics, or just by picking up the phone to a lawyer. And that would have left the doctor with egg all over his face, which is not the best position from which to persuade parents to agree to what you want.

And, again, what's the evidence about several emails? If you don't get answers from a doctor, you either talk to him or you go above his head.

[Bogeyface]

The Czech Centre said they still have not received Ashya's medical records.

Would that be the original records of the heavily "doctored" ones? (pun intended)

Icimoi The father claims that several emails were not replied to. And regarding the threat, every doctor knows now that we have access to Dr Google so only a fool would think that they hadnt done their own research. I suspect it was a threat he used on the Kings thinking it would work because it had worked before......

No evidence for that, just my gut feeling coupled with personal experience.

[Bogeyface]

or the heavily doctored ones, not of.

[BigChocFrenzy]

The hospital has reason to be nervous and circling the wagons right now:

Their lawyers are probably telling them that they, or the doctor, might be open to a negligence claim, should the parents wish to pursue the matter.
I wonder about a libel claim as well.

[CalamityKate1]

Surely the bottom line is that it's been decided that THEY HAVE NO CASE TO ANSWER and have been freed?

[Icimoi]

Maryz, I answered your question on the other thread. I have never said that the parents weren't worried about the possibility of a court order. What I have said is that I think the parents misunderstood the hospital in that regard. They plainly didn't depart in a panic as they spent time sourcing and ordering equipment. Given that they thought there was the possibility of legal action, if they had just spent a very short time getting legal advice, or checking on the internet, or just thinking about it, they would have realised that they had alternatives.

Relatives are put into this type of situation not infrequently. How many of them react in this way?

And the question you and others don't seem to answer is: what was the hospital supposed to do when the child disappeared?

[Icimoi]

I suspect that the motive for the hospital to lie, is much stronger than the motive for the parents to lie.

Well, apparently there is some independent evidence in favour of the hospital.

And as I've said, I don't think the parents are lying, I think they're probably mistaken. However, they're not totally devoid of possible motives for lying - after all, they started making the Youtube videos at the point when they realised the police were looking for them.

[Bogeyface]

Icimoi I agree that the hospital had a duty of care and they did need to raise the alarm. I think that most peoples issue isnt with that but with the heavy handed way it was dealt with afterwards.

International arrest warrants, releasing info about the parents and child, the media using their religion to imply that they are extemists who have refused medical help etc etc. It was all wrong, morally and legally.

THAT is what has pissed people off.

[Icimoi]

So why did they run?

Why, why, why, why on earth would they if the hospital was organising treatment at the Czech hospital and was prepared to delay radiotherapy?

I really wish you'd actually read what I post, Maryz. This is at least the third time you've misrepresented it. And if you actually read my posts you would realise that, more than once, I've given an answer to your requests for reasons.

I didn't say either of those things. I said, very cautiously, that they'd apparently made contact with the Czech hospital, and that they've said they were prepared to help the family with this. I suspect that they hadn't made that clear to the parents - as I've also said, I agree that there were clear failures of communication on both sides. And yes, I agree that it's the hospital's responsibility to communicate, but maybe it's understandable why incredibly busy doctors fall down on that sometimes.

In many respects. that is one of the main reasons why Cameron should keep his stupid mouth shut. These situations wouldn't arise at all but for the NHS cuts and sell-off that his government has imposed.

[Bogeyface]

Oh and I felt this way before the fathers video was released, I started a thread about it. I was not swayed by the video, but it confirmed my gut feelings.

[Bogeyface]

Also of course it brings up the question "Why did they feel they needed to flee?"

They made plans, this wasnt done on a whim, so we are not talking about some "no one tells me what to do!" arsehole. What was said to them that they felt that fleeing with no notice was their only option?

[Icimoi]

Their lawyers are probably telling them that they, or the doctor, might be open to a negligence claim, should the parents wish to pursue the matter.

What negligence claim? To establish negligence you need to be able to prove that there was a duty of care in respect of the acts complained of, that the potential defendant breached that duty, that it was reasonably foreseeable that damage would result from that breach, and that quantifiable damage has actually been sustained. In deciding whether a doctor has breached that duty, you have to prove that he acted in a way which would not be supported by any responsible body of professional opinion.

On that basis, how is the hospital facing a potential negligence claim?

[Bogeyface]

On the basis that the child was denied access to his parents, his main caregivers, due to the actions of the trust, the police and the spanish judge.