Indyref Part 4

[SantanaLopez]

Evening all :)

A further concern I have about independence is that I don't actually trust huge numbers of those on the Yes side. These are the people who brought us the Curriculum for Excellence and the huge dumbing down of education in a country that used to have a proud tradition of education. I now teach, for 20% of the final grade at N5 and Higher, 6 fairly mediocre poems. The idea of excellence is laughable. Parents and teachers have been up in arms about it (and results at N5 were massaged to ensure everyone shut up afterwards) and yet how quickly they have forgotten. Pupils now study fewer subjects to a lower level, and are kept going over subjects to a very low level until the end of S3 ( or are supposed to).

I used to be able to teach a wide variety of texts from everywhere, including Scotland, to suit the interests and needs of my pupils. Now I have to follow the rules or pupils will fail. Extrapolate that level of control and inflexibility across things like the economy - scary! And the solution - attract people from outside to work in Scotland.

What about providing a decent education for the people we already have. Education is fully devolved and pupils have been royally screwed by the SNP. What kind of damage will they do to the economy.

Statistically- why do t you stop tarring all yes voters with the same brush?

Oooh perfect that's it! I'm totally double bluffing! I'm actually totally paid up by Eck, I'm posting from Holyrood right now. It's really scarey in here at night. Too many angles . Too much architecture. I 'm gonna have to go in a moment actually and try and catch last orders in Hemma.

Santana, I don't have a particular problem with you. To be honest I can't even remember which one of you you are.

I don't have a problem with no campaigners in general either, just find this thread really irritating! Vote what you believe in, I respect the fact you've all done your research and you're passionate and engaged. I also prefer you to the no voters who refuse to talk about it, at least you all have the courage to voice your opinions and believe in them. My father is voting NO and totally fair enough. He doesn't want Scotland to be independant. Fair enough! He doesn't hark on for weeks about doom scenarios though so I find him less irritating!

LadyC

Changing the subject slightly; I have been musing a lot on some of the less talked about background factors that may be nudging some of the younger voters to vote yes. I think property prices in the SE have a big effect. 25 years ago, a large proportion of my peers moved to London after graduation, the sensible ones got onto graduate training scheme with Blue chip companies but even us art school graduates moved down and signed on, it was during the early nineties downturn so well paid work was not always easy to find but we all managed to live in fairly safe areas in shared flats and take our time finding our feet, most of us could afford to buy flats eventually without help from parents (those that did have seen the value rise exponentially). London wasn't any more expensive to live in than Edinburgh and we had a lot of fun.

Not the case now, if my kids had to move down they would have to live miles out and would be unlikely to get on the property ladder, they see London as something unaccessible and unaffordable. It feels more remote as a result.

Lady Cordelia - why would you assume I'm on less?

The only thing I'm likely to choke on is the bile you spit out.

"Criseyde, is that a problem at the moment? Always seem to be plenty of foreign students in either of the university towns I regularly visit, but maybe numbers used to be much higher?"

The UK dropped post study work visas in 2012 and, yes, it has already had an impact on international student numbers. But the real impact will not be felt until at least one student cycle has worked through, and we have a cohort of newly qualified graduates most of whom will find they have to leave the UK immediately - after spending, on average, almost 60K on a Bachelor's degree + living costs.

Yes I'm being sarcastic. And yes I am having a lie down . Night

But how can you survive?

I haven't tarred all Yes voters with the same brush, at any point. There may have been comments about yes voter levels of education, intellect, financial status etc. They have not come from me.

Ok, just one more post

But it is morally wrong to vote no, in the eyes of many yes voters.

Exactly, that is the tone that I encounter mostly in RL. And there seems to be some kind of implication that because I am a no voter I am somehow less caring about social welfare, human rights, poverty, the environment etc etc. (George Monbiot in the Guardian today is a classic example). This really irritates me as I have always been left wing, even when I was very much in the minority, and have dedicated many hours and most latterly my career to causes I value.

I just don't get why iScotland will be better at delivering solutions to these problems - especially as we still have absolutely no idea how these could be delivered because there is no clear strategy for the economy.

Roseformeplease - I have heard exactly these complaints from my teacher friends too. It's downright depressing.

Right, really am off now...

Wiggly- yes I think the divergence between London and Scotland in the last 20 years has been spectacular and has played a significant part in this referendum.

A few of my peers joined the 'brain drain' to London. Now they are at the age of wanting to have a family life and find they can't there. Childcare. Housing. Schools. It's another world. Working class kids have no chance there now, not now unpaid internships are the route to lots of jobs.

I think this is one reason young people now see themselves as more Scottish and less British. I imagine this generation will be much more likely to stay in Scotland. So they need independence to ensure the jobs they want are located here, not in remote and inaccessible London.

I just don't get why iScotland will be better at delivering solutions to these problems - especially as we still have absolutely no idea how these could be delivered because there is no clear strategy for the economy.

Neither do I.

Own laundry, well I never... I don't even know how to work the machine!

I really must go to bed, I'm getting a jag in the arse tomorrow. The glitz and the glamour of the banking lifestyle, folks!

I imagine this generation will be much more likely to stay in Scotland. So they need independence to ensure the jobs they want are located here, not in remote and inaccessible London.

But independence isn't going to solve that, not for this generation anyway. Probably not until my toddler's generation have grown up, at least. The economics simply don't support these claims.

I thought the Scottish Social Attitudes Survey showed an increase in the percentage defining themselves as either Scottish and British, or just British? Or do you have an age gap breakdown of it?

I see myself as both Scottish and British, but then I'm 41 so sadly no longer count as young.

LadyCordelia I think it's fabulous that women like you do what(ever) you do and are renumerated accordingly - probably because of the responsibility you have within your employment and the skills needed to do it. Your tax contribution is commendable and I don't feel remotely jealous as I know what it takes to do the sort of job that pays that well.

Sadly not

Night all

These aren't I so rich but not really as rich as I like to be jokes are also irritating . Do you have any idea what I earn or are you assuming I'm poor because I'm voting yes? Does it even matter? I'm voting yes because I think Scotland has a better chance of voting in governments that are representative of it's population if independent. I'm willing to take the risk that they might not be as left wing as I'd like. I'm also willing to risk the stability of my life to these ends. And if over 50% of other people living in Scotland think the same then I think we'll have a remarkable situation where the mass population re engage politically, the political landscape might alter and the two party/me first/centre right school of politics that have dominated my life might loosen it's grip.

I'm aware it might go tits up. I'm ready to have my heartbroken. But I don't feel it's anymore risk than continuing down the same path.

Personally I'm making no assumption whatsoever about your income deeedeee. I'm joking about being rich because it's been thrown at me directly in this thread to try and invalidate my opinion. Which would be just as offensive as someone saying your opinion was invalid because if your income - whatever that income may be.

And I'm not rich.