Indyref Part 4

[SantanaLopez]

Evening all :)

I am not living in a fantasy land.. that's my problem!

repeats to self :

"I am not a bad person.."

The Westminster govt via OfGem has just paid us to install a wood-pellet boiler so we no longer rely on oil.

They are also paying our neighbours handsomely for 2 wind turbines (or 2 childlren's school fees, as the saying goes).

So, I would say they are quite supportive of weaning us carbon fuels.

LadyCordelia - I think the difference in influence is so negligible that it is not worth worrying about. And influence on a world stage is not that important - the world's worst problems will not be solved through British leadership.

And No voters - I know you are not bad people. I know a lot of lovely No voters. Also, I have lofty principals but I don't always live up to them myself. I buy too many new clothes are use the car sometimes when I should walk/go on the bus. I fly too much (for work).

But Freddie Britain's reliance on renewable energy sources is VERY low compared to that of Germany and Scandinavia. These things are drops in the ocean. The government needs to relax planning laws and over-rule the NIMBYs to build enough turbines, and it will not do that.

Will, it was you who suggested a Yes vote was in some way good for battling climate change wasn't it?

I can recommend the bus, you get to meet a cross section.

Not wind turbines..gives up and waves bye!

I think we need to agree - that you either vote with your head or your heart. If you vote with your head then the reasoned arguments will help form a balanced decision. And arithmetically it is a no.

If you vote with your heart - then i think it is very much the Yes's vote to lose. But i vote with my head. Besides when i took my trolley to the till in Tesco on Sunday i asked to pay the bill with, fraternal love, social justice, true democracy and freedom. I was told they took debit cards credit cards or cash.

I speak with a lot of colleagues all over Scotland and they are frankly petrified of the prospect of a yes vote. Current views on the administration apply to whelk stalls. These are not high earners - rich landowners or whoever the bette-noire of the left is today - but hard working, non management union members.

they say -
What about my job
my benefits
my pension
my mortgage payments
my savings

Your average voter will vote selfishly - are they bullying the yes campaign to demand a reasoned answer - cos quite frankly - telling them it will all be fine and that they shouldnt worry their pretty heads about it - isnt just patronising - it is dishonest.

The yes campaign supporters should demand that the campaign answer these openly, honestly and in a detailed manner - or they are colluding with the fraud.

Moving away from international influence for a moment, I got sent an email about a private member's bill (Liberal Democrat) which whilst it can't abolish the bedroom tax will exempt those with disabilities or those who live in areas where there are smaller council properties available. I know Scotland had made some funding available to offset the impact of the bedroom tax, but this is still a major issue for the UK. Private Members Bills may not generally be successful, but a good turnout in favour of the bill will certainly send a message. I've emailed my MP (Labour) who is voting in favour. The vote is on Friday.

secure.38degrees.org.uk/change-bedroom-tax


Will I don't know where you live, but there are turbines going up everywhere around us. And that's down to the Scottish govt, and something I pretty much support as long as the turbines don't disturb neighbours.

Scotland has done well increasing the proportion of green energy, and I can't see how that will be improved by independence.

In terms of the bigger picture, no, we can't influence China whether in the UK or not. But we can improve the technology hugely by encouraging installations and experience of the various technologies over time, all of which is already being done.

Eventually, if it all works and makes financial sense (ie is cheaper than oil), China will follow suit.

Sorry that should read where there are no smaller council properties available

But Freddie Britain's reliance on renewable energy sources is VERY low compared to that of Germany and Scandinavia.

Will It's not a coincidence that those are wealthy countries who can afford the subsidies, without which wind power is uneconomic.

Wind power, apart from being unreliable as a base load, is very expensive. Reliance on it in Scotland (especially once cUK stops its subsidies) would push consumers' energy bills sky-high. This will hurt the poorest people the most. It's a wonderful idea in theory, but not in practice.

These economics do not change, whoever governs us.

in terms of influence - the UK is part of G7 and China who has a massive balance of payments with the G7 listens really quite carefully as do the Brics. The UK has the 2nd largest economy in Europe and is one of the loudest voices on the EU economic stage. It is predicted that in i think 20 years, it could overtake Germany to be the largest in the EU.

This gives you a voice.

the UK is the no1 european contributor to NATO - this gives a huge political and military voice.

The uk has a permanent seat on the UN security council.

We may not be what we were - but for a long time the UK has been a hugely respected and listened to voice on the world stage. setting aside the ups and downs of local difficulties getting the US and UK on side in any international discussion is a good indicator that things are likely to go your way. this isnt said of say - Kazakhstan or Chile or Denmark

China has massive reserves of oil. I'm pretty sure that's why it has so many coal-powered power stations (and creates such a lot of pollution). I doubt anyone could persuade it to stop using its own coal, given that it's easier to mine coal than pump oil from the less accessible oil fields now that the easiest-to-extract oil has gone. Unless internationally agreed stricter restrictions on polluting emissions are made.

The most productive Scottish wind turbines are in the least populated areas and transporting the electricity they produce to where it's needed most is difficult and inefficient. There was huge opposition to the new power lines built to bring electricity generated by wind turbines in the north of Scotland to the central belt.

Apparently Orkney generates slightly more energy than it uses with its renewables. It is currently unable to export it as the infrastructure isn't there. (yet)

Don't the Scottish renewables sell energy to the UK national grid for a high cost. I think that's how UK is subsidising (Scottish) renewables.

Every time I read this thread I want to slit my wrists. Don't ever try anything anyone, change is scarey and dangerous.

The future is uncertain! Worthwhile things are often difficult! You all feel like you are banging your heads against a brick wall because we understand it's risky but we believe it's the right thing to do anyway.

Hi lady Cordelia! ;-)

chocoluvva
Yes exactly.

Under EU regulations each country is committed to generating part of its energy from renewables. You have to generate it yourself, not import it.

At the moment the UK is one unit, and Scotland's wind power is quite a big proportion of the renewables quota. If Scotland becomes foreign, the cUK will have to generate all its own quota from renewables.

Fortunately there are some big developments coming along to meet that quota, including the biggest offshore wind farm in the world.
www.gov.uk/government/news/worlds-largest-offshore-wind-farm-opens-in-the-uk

The energy companies serving cUK may choose to buy energy from Scotland, but they won't need to pay more than the basic rate. The excess cost will have to come from the Scottish government, if they want the wind generators to continue.

The largest windfarm is 10 miles outside of glasgow- hardly an unpopulated area!

Interest rates are too low just now. So saying they will go up after a tea vote is actually a reason to vote yes. Higher interest rates will benefit pensioners, savers and will control house prices for the benefit of first time buyers.

Yes deeedeee. The future is uncertain.

But some things are predictable, because basic economics and mathematics are universal and unchanging.
These things can't be changed by a few politicians writing a White Paper, or even by 50% of a small country's voters believing it.

What is that old saying - "If wishes were horses, beggars would ride".
By all means vote Yes, deeedeee - but do make sure you have a stout pair of shoes.

Oh dear, Weatherall.