Indyref Part 4

[SantanaLopez]

Evening all :)

I want a Scotland that works for those earning £25k not those who see that as small change.

Sad to say, weatherall but that's exactly the bracket that will be hardest hit.
Those on fat salaries are generally in the sort of jobs where they are more able to move away to a lower tax regime.
The poorest are not paying tax or are unemployed, on benefits.
The ones in the middle are going to be paying with their increased income tax and/or vat, for those promised benefits and pensions.
And someone also to make up for the lower corporation tax that SNP is promising.

My family is in the north of Scotland, I really like where I live and I wouldn't want to uproot my DC at this stage of education. DH's job should be safe.

I'm unsure about the extent of movement of skilled workers out of Scotland, but I think it will discourage skilled workers from rUK from moving here.

There may be Scots moving back to Scotland to be a part of it.

I'm unhappy with the guardian article that says voting no is akin to self harm

speaking as a self harmer, I find that wording just wrong.

There may be Scots moving back to Scotland to be a part of it.

Good for them, and I mean that sincerely. Once Salmond has got name in the history books and buggered off to write his memoirs, Scotland is going to need all the help it can get.

AFF - presumably they left for work. Therefore less likely to move back IMO.

an estate agent friend says they've all had meetings about indyref. the general consensus is that in the event of iScotland mortages will go up, house prices go down.

grovel I am mostly English (born in Edinburgh but parents mostly English and grew up in England) and live in Scotland and have not encountered any such hatred.

And I must say that those of you who worry about your jobs/mortgages/tax rates - do you realize how lucky you are to have these worries? Both me and DH are in the top 2% of earners in the UK. We have a mortgage, pay 40% tax rate and there is a chance that my place of work will suffer in an independent Scotland. However, I am prepared to take the hit because I know that compared to those living below the poverty line, I am living a life of luxury. If everything went horribly wrong and we lost our house, we both come from middle class families who would not let us end up on the street.

This is compared to what we are looking at if no one acts on climate change. Sure, China is the real problem, but you can't just leave it to someone else. Being a small country is not an excuse for inaction. If we do nothing, food supplies will fail, sea levels will rise, and the 40% tax rate will be the least of our worries....all the money in the world can't buy food that doesn't exist.

WillPenn, I've never experienced anything but warmth on holidays/business trips to Scotland. I just assumed that the atmosphere must be pretty febrile just now.

And a yes vote will not send me south. I've no desire to live in the crowded, over-priced, south east. I love my home city in Scotland and I wouldn't go anywhere else.

But my DS was unimpressed.

Undercurrent it's not that clear or easy - we don't know so many really big things. And whenever one side puts out figures or analysis the other shouts that they are wrong. I have seen, somewhere , costings for just some of the White Paper and it would leave us with a huge deficit. But many of the proposals aren't even clear enough to cost.

an estate agent friend says they've all had meetings about indyref. the general consensus is that in the event of iScotland mortages will go up, house prices go down.

That sounds very likely. They will be a lot more houses on the market and that will push the prices down. But the higher cost of money means that new mortgage repayments will not change much.

The worst hit will be those who have just bought houses at current prices and are not on fixed rate mortgages. The increased interest rates will really hurt them.

grovel I'm sorry your son was subjected to that - unfortunately there will always be people like that around.

It won't be South for us, my dh works for a French company so might well end up over there.

God weatherall just stop, you're acting as if you have a chip on your shoulder or something. It's the taxes paid by higher earners, in fact all earners, that goes to pay for everything you purport to value. Or do you think it all comes free?

Surely the White Paper can't be seen as anything but a strawman? We don't know who would be governing iScotland after the 2016 election. Surely any party but the SNP can disown it?

those of you who worry about your jobs/mortgages/tax rates - do you realize how lucky you are to have these worries?

Seriously!!!!! You're right. I'm so lucky to be worried about losing my job when I'm the main earner in the household and my profession is likely to be decimated. I'm lucky to have the opportunity to lose my home, you're right. I don't come from a nice safe middle class family who will be able to look after us if this happens. I come from a very poor background and have worked my backside off to have the luxury of such trivial concerns as how I will continue to support my family.

WillPenn I admire your stance on poverty and climate change.

It has no effect on my voting pattern however as I do not believe that power residing in Holyrood over the political and economic entity of Scotland would offer any progress on those issues.

In fact I believe a Yes vote would be destabilising to our wee corner of the world for the sake of rhetoric and that we'd all be better off studying engineering to solve some energy issues.

Even no voters have dreams!

Yes, I fully accept that for those of you who have worked hard for wealth and come from poorer backgrounds/do not have such safety nets will certainly have a different perspective. I certainly wasn't born with a silver-spoon in my mouth and my parents have never bailed me out but I have not ever known true poverty (apart from a few years living in London in my 20s), and I acknowledge this might contribute to a certain lack of realism on my part.

Perhaps we should look at creating solutions to climate change rather than worrying about the government doing it for us. The problem is they will never be implemented without a supportive govt - which is not what Westminster is or ever will be. With PR in the Scottish parliament the Greens at least have a chance (however small) of influencing policy, whereas in first past the post Westminster, these voices never get heard and never will.

Also, China will not listen to the UK or rUK - you are living in fantasy land if you think the UK is an important country on the world stage anymore. That ship sailed many decades ago.

Even no voters have dreams

Yup, we dream of the UK free of poverty and inequality, making a major contribution to solving food and energy issues.