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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder how it is affordable to be a SAHM?

502 replies

Moobieboobie · 01/09/2014 21:03

This is not a WOHM vs SAHM debate but am genuinely curious ....... I am on mat leave with DC2 and keep being asked if I am returning to work. I would love to stay at home this time round but sadly this is not a possibility as both myself and DH earn roughly the same thus my salary is 50% of the household costs. We would not receive any benefits etc as we would still be above the threshold even without my salary. If there is someway around this please let me know as I will try anything!!

OP posts:
LittleBearPad · 07/09/2014 11:52

Agree with Beast. I wouldn't have a clue how to use Sage or Sap or any accounting system but I don't need to. You may want to work in an accounts department or in an accountancy practice. They are very different things.

Beastofburden · 07/09/2014 11:53

marsh I am guilty of the original post Grin. What I was actually saying, is that I know a lot of women who have not worked in 25 years, whose kids leave to go to Uni, and who suddenly fancy a job doing what they vaguely enjoyed doing when they were 25. They haven't worked in 25 years, they haven't done anything to keep their skills up to date, and they are very unrealistic about what they could get a job in.

Of course, if they were professional creatives who had had a career in the area and had good skills, that would be a different matter. But if you haven't worked for a generation, nobody is going to fall over themselves to employ you doing what you fancy. You may just have to compromise and do something that sells.

By the way, as a linguist I have to tell you that we non-creative bean counters pore over spreadsheets. We don't pour over them. Wink.

MarshaBrady · 07/09/2014 11:55

By god you're right! I always thought of face pores when I saw that. Have been reading too many facial toner packets.

MarshaBrady · 07/09/2014 11:56

I take your point, btw, it's a blinking competitive market, even for people who have been doing it for years.

Beastofburden · 07/09/2014 11:56
Grin
MarshaBrady · 07/09/2014 11:59

Which means I used up my speech about how we feel about female creatives at the wrong time, sob. Now I'll have to re-use it another time when it's the right Grin

Beastofburden · 07/09/2014 12:02

It is. And it's a shame, because many of these women have a lot to give and are delightful company. But they don't understand the sheer discipline and knowledge that other people bring to their careers; they think having an interest in the area will cut it. Sadly, that makes them customers, not professional providers....

Partly as they have never had a senior job before they had their families. Much as I love them, I find myself thinking that 25 years doing your own thing with the kids is a poor preparation for being told what to do in a work environment Grin

But then they give up and say, oh, I have no earning potential. When in fact they do. But in something a bit more mundane than they were hoping for.

Beastofburden · 07/09/2014 12:04

I do agree with you about middle aged female creatives, btw. I have a whole rant of my own about how to be a senior female executive without being called "bitchy", "feisty", "assertive" "aggressive".... Or else you can have the mumsy/ mousy axis.... Ppl really hate you if you are 50something and female and in charge of them. They hate you even more if you are clever Grin

MarshaBrady · 07/09/2014 12:08

They do. I work with female CEOs on stuff and I love it, but some of the things people say are terrible.

And I've had so many assumptions about my more (creative) work, before they see it, based on my accent and being female and all that.

Both sides hugely irritate, even worse when women do it. In fact the worst culprits lately have been women.

Beastofburden · 07/09/2014 12:10

There are some very depressing stats that suggest that the ppl who most resent female bosses are young women.

Apparently, if men are competent, it's expected, and they don't have to be nice: being nice is a bonus and makes them more popular.

But women are expected to be nice so we get no bonus points for that; being competent is apparently very alienating to both men and women and is actively resented.

MarshaBrady · 07/09/2014 12:12

I should add I don't prefer it, I like male or female clients equally. But the females definitely get a harder time. Feisty, bitchy etc as you say. Such a disservice.

MarshaBrady · 07/09/2014 12:12

yes I can imagine that.

MollyBdenum · 07/09/2014 12:22

I don't want to work in a job that pays lots of money but which makes me miserable. I know this because while the job I had (and loved) before I had children paid just over minimum wage, I have also been a solicitor for a big commercial firm. Taking the sensible, practical, big money option and ignoring my actual skills, talents and personality was probably the biggest mistake I've ever made.

treaclesoda · 07/09/2014 14:20

I know I'm going to be shouted down but I think that having a career 'choice' is something of a myth for a lot of people. Obviously I'm not talking about people who knew aged 18 that they wanted to be a Dr so they went to study that, or teaching, or nursing.

But for everyone else, we went to university and then when we left, we needed to pay the bills so we applied for every job under the sun. Whatever job we got was the field we got stuck in. Some were lucky and got a job that they happened to enjoy, perhaps with an employer who was happy to support professional development. Most were not and ended up in soul destroying jobs with no promotional or training opportunities. We all thought that we could keep applying for jobs in the areas that interested us but in reality employers aren't interested in transferable skills. If you're working in HR but your heart lies in accountancy, it's impossible to switch because you don't have experience in the finance department. I've read hundreds of times that all you need to do is tell your employer that you're really interested in another area of the business and they'll be really impressed and let you gain some experience there but that doesn't reflect the working world that I've experienced. The response to that is more often 'who do you think you are?'

Greengrow · 07/09/2014 14:27

treacle, you do need to ensure your children don't make the same mistake though... my father drove us to school every day as teenagers. We talked about careers and which paid what and what would make us happy. I don't see why any parent in the land cannot do that with their teenagers. We all did career specific degrees (my brother read medicine at Cambridge, I read law etc). 30 years on we all delight in high paid lovely work and work full time. It's been really good and my children are going along the same lines (2 are lawyers). Seize power. Make choices. Don't feel life moulds you. Mould life. It's wonderful. Having a very feminist mother who had supported my father by working full time for 13 years whilst he worked helps too of course... lucky me. My cup over floweth.

ChocolateWombat · 07/09/2014 14:34

I think it can be an option even if you currently live in London.

The following list are things you COULD do. Whether you are prepared to seriously consider doing them is the issue. Some of them might be un appealing and/or tricky, so whether you really are willing to consider them perhaps tells you something about how important being a SAHM is to you. Everyone's level of sacrifice they are willing to make to achieve it varies.

Possibilities;
-increase term of mortgage to reduce mortgage payments

  • move to a smaller property, meaning less mortgage or rent
  • move out of London to somewhere cheaper. Then commute in for work/get job elsewhere.
  • DH or yourself get an evening job or weekend job to supplement income

If you are looking to make serious savings in order for it to be a possibility, the sacrifices are likely to be considerable. I wouldn't dismiss any of the above, even if they are not immediately appealing, if you REALLY want to be a SAHM and your DH is committed to the idea too. For example, you might think it is not ideal to live in a small flat, but the question is whether you value the space,mor the time at home with the children more.

You both need to be committed to the value of being a SAHM because the moving/more commuting options are likely to have a big impact on him, and he will have to value the lifestyle choice you are making to make the sacrifices and inconveniences worthwhile.

ChocolateWombat · 07/09/2014 14:41

Having mentioned the things you CAN do to become a SAHM, I agree that you should think seriously about leaving the workplace.
My children are at the top end of primary. A Number of my friends have not worked since having children and now want to get back into the workplace. However, they are obsesses see with dropping their children at school and being there to pick up every day, because that is what they have always done. They cannot find anything to fit in with the hours they wish to work, never mind, the issue of not having kept their skills up to date for nearly a decade.

How about the part-time option? I know it does not work in every job, but it is a way to keep your hand in and ensure there is a job for you when the kids are a bit older, and it does give you time at home too.

williaminajetfighter · 07/09/2014 18:15

Greengrow are you Xenia reincarnated or just Xenia herself??! Grin

MaryWestmacott · 07/09/2014 18:40

Greengrow - that's fine, unless you did what I did and stupidly gratuated during an economic downturn. Foolish mistake. chosen careers applied for over and over, tried to move a couple times during 'dull early career' stage. By the time things were picking up, I'd got experience in what I ended up doing and was earning decent (well, £30k+) money, moving then to graduate entry level would mean significant pay cut, and I was too long graduated to apply for graduate entry roles.

And then I had DCs. Personally, I know I'm not going back to an old career, because a) I wasn't enjoying it, and b) a step up would require hours I'm not prepared to do while the DCs are young, I'm not sure I'd be prepared to do the "15 hours in the office" days even when they are secondary level, so if i'm only going to 'coast' for the next 17+ years (DC2 is only 15 months), I'm not going to get the next step up job anyway as why would you hire me into it.

That said, I'm not going to do the being a SAHM for 20 years then thinking about a career thing, I'm waiting until DC2 is school age then looking for something that is interesting if not well paid.

Beastofburden · 07/09/2014 18:41

molly andtreacle both have a point, which is that what you want from a job matters a lot. However, perhaps when we are younger what matters is the job itself; and when we are older with more complex lives, what matters is the mixture of job, stress levels, flexibility, etc. being higher paid is important in that mix mainly as it allows you to work PT or retire younger if you want to. If you are lower paid than you have to work more hours to get the same money.

Of course doi g something you hate is not an option, but just becau you hate one well paid job it doesn't follow you would hate all well paid jobs. It may depend on why that job is well paid. If they are buying your soul and the hours are hellish, you never switch off, etc. then that only suits a small number of ppl. If OTOH you develop a niche skill to a high level, then you can up your pay without that.

Bt of course treacle is right, we fall into our jobs and our existing employers are not likely to support retraining. Deciding to retrain is a big step. Sometimes you can see a way to edge into it; but sometimes it involves a big burning of boats and a big risk.

That's why I would encourage SAHM to think about what they would like their future careers to look like, and do any retraining they need while they have a bit of flexibility, such as when the kids are at school all day but still too young for you to want to return to paid work.

Fairylea · 07/09/2014 18:46

If only I'd chosen to be a lawyer and ignored the fact my gran was dying of bowel cancer and needed me as a carer... or the fact my mum had a mental breakdown half way through my a levels... or the fact I spent most of my 18-21 years throwing up over a sink with kidney disease.... life would have been so much better, I'd be rolling in it and I wouldn't need to be stuck in my house with my lovely children and really enjoying it because I'd be able to go back to work and earn money so I can validate myself as a human being. ...

Hmm
Iggi999 · 07/09/2014 18:47

As a teacher I'm never going to make megabucks but I was on track for further promotion (I believe) and could be earning a comfortable amount if I hadn't had dcs and gone part-time. While flexible working can
be easy to get (in my case) you can give up hope of finding promotion if you wish to work part-time. But I've adored my days at home, I just wish it didn't have to be a choice.

Iggi999 · 07/09/2014 18:48

Money was certainly not what I looked for in a job when I graduated, I wanted to change the world Blush

Greengrow · 07/09/2014 19:03

Mary, I graduated ni a downturn, when a generation of graduates found it hard to get jobs. I only managed it because I didn't mess around at university,. was virtually top of the year with prizes, was reading a career specific degree and made over 010 job applications well in advance of graduating and lots of things like job experience in university holidays, volunteering in relevant career specific stuff.

As to the person who had the mental breakdown during A levels that's awful. Couldn't your mother or father have nursed the dying grandparent? Mine grandparents died when I was younger than that so it did not take me away from my studies. Most people don't have mental illness and I know quite a bit about it as my family are mostly psychiatrsits, not lawyers and I know how awful it is. But most don't have it and they can choose my path - work very hard at school, not indulge themselves with parties, get the best exam results in the school and university, pick a high paid career. There are choices for many people in life most people take mediocre career choices which pay very little and many of course don't want to work as hard as the high paid work so that's choice too. I am not saying highly paid careers are always best for all women and men. I just strongly believe we can carve our destiny rather than sit back in jealousy moaning about what life flings at us.

Beastofburden · 07/09/2014 19:03

fairy apart from possibly greengrow Grin I don't think this conversation is about validating us as ppl. I am more interested in passing on my thoughts from way down the track - 7 years SAHM, 5 years PT and the following 14 FT- which is that you have to keep curious and prepared. Because what makes us happy when the Dc are tiny does not necessarily make us happy when they have left home. It's not about being rich, it's about having a pension, being able to help the kids buy a home, having a home ourselves, etc etc. it can be very frustrating when the kids are all grown up, and the family is broke, and you want to contribute financially but you can't.

It's never too late. I am on my second career because having disabled DC smashed my first career. I have had toddler-style caring responsibilities for the past 22 years. They will never end. My old career was not an option, but I found a new one. You had a shit start, but you are young, life is full of possibilities, and what you want may change over time.