To report friend to FB for photo of her blacked up?

[Greyhound]

I'm really shocked - cousin of mine has pic of herself on Facebook blacked up. She is white. The picture is of her at a fancy dress party - she has covered her face in dark brown stage make up and is wearing an "Afro" wig and Rastafarian style striped hat.

Her husband is also blacked up.

The CSA lead at the CPS would disagree with you Mrs

Of the cases he sees, and he sees all of them the poor bastard 80-90% of the perpetrators are white. So, while the abuses in Rotherham were mostly perpetrated by Muslim men, most cases of CSA are perpetrated by men who are not Muslims.

It would seem that, for the majority of cases of CSA race isn't an issue, so it behooves us to look at the real reasons why it happens, rather than concentrate on a single issue, which has little or no relevance to the vast majority of cases. We need to be able to see the problem and name it, the problem overall is not that Muslims are abusers, but that for a large number of men, women and girls are things to be used. NOT ALL MEN

I did post on one of the Rotherham threads, however, I was accused of not giving a fuck about abused children because, even though:

I condemned the perpetrators in this case, and
I acknowledged that there can be serious problems with how Muslim men are socialised to view women and girls, especially non Muslim women and girls, plus
I also know that even in the north that is not the case, I know this because I know a fair few victims of it from the north, and none of their abusers was Muslim, they were all white.

I know that most abuse isn't perpetrated by Muslim men against white girls.

Because I refused to jump on the 'all Muslim men are abusers of white women' bandwagon, I was told I didn't give a fuck about their victims in Rotherham. So I gave up and hid the threads.

Buffy, but the perpetrators were still influenced by something to make them treat women they way they did. It doesn't all boil down to the fact that they were men. Something influenced the fact that they viewed themselves to be superior to women. It doesn't have to be this particular case, it doesn't have to be a particular religion but there is something that is influencing their beliefs so you can't just put sex at the top. Sex by itself isn't going to determine whether a man thinks he is superior to a woman.

Unlike some people on this thread, I do not feel the need to reiterate or re-bullshit what I said umpteen pages ago for fear that new-to-the-thread mumsnetters might just see me as a teensy bit unconcerned about the poor white girls Oop Norf.

I do wish some of you, however, could see that when I say not in Rotheram they're not, I am referring to these specific cases where young white and poor females are being groomed and raped by Pakistani males. For the purposes of this thread I am not discussing rape at large. Do you understand that, witch? Let me say it again: I am discussing the rape cases involving gang grooming and raping in largely Northern towns perpetrated by one race against another. They all had penises and they all have jolly nasty opinions of women, but they also have entrenched beliefs about white women which is entrenched in plenty of mosques up and down the country and which allows them to believe that what they are doing is valid.

True, but socialisation does. The way society labels girls as inferior to boys 'you throw like a girl' etc and that does start almost from birth.

My last post became garbled as I am trying to placate my five month-old baby. I must go...

Further to my last. I was speaking to Mrs....

Boys are labelled as inferior to girls in some respects too Capt. I see it a lot in respect to reading/writing and the tendency to think of boys as troublemakers - particularly when they're in groups.

I also think that you could equally say that in some cultures/religion the socialisation of women has influenced their opinion formed their attitude to men i.e. that they are superior.

Mrs, not to the same extent that boys are made to feel superior. Boys are stronger, cleverer, better at maths, faster, and on and on I understand that you don't want to see that, but there it is.

And I've stated really clearly a few times now that agree that certain cultures do reinforce that socialisation much more strongly. Not sure what more I can do to convince you that I know it's the case now.

Sabrinna so my own personal experience counts for nothing does it? You and Buffy know better. You know do the the selection process for promotion in law firms? Perhaps I'm imagining half of my partners since obviously only men get the breaks.

In any of the firms I've worked on there has been nothing imposed by employers preventing women developing their careers.

If you and Buffy seriously think any partner or associate who has interesting and challenging work to delegate thinks "oh no I won't give it to xx I'll give it to xy" you are beyond deluded. The best and most enthusiastic person gets it.

I've passed over women because they came across as uninterested and constantly had to be chivvied to get on with the work and I've passed over male employees for the same reasons and will continue to do so.

Phaedra I believe that women face systematic discrimination at work, on the basis that there is a significant body of work which supports my view, as well as the indisputable existence of a marked pay gap between men and women.

Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that every woman will feel that she has suffered discrimination, and so of course your personal experience is important. However, it isn't actually evidence against the presence of sex discrimination at work.

It's perfectly true that women don't tend to commit this kind of abuse, but it can't be denied that some are complicit by denying it, sweeping it under the carpet and more

Clearly this applies to all communities, though some posters seem to feel that there are influences among Pakistanis/muslims which make it more likely

One such lady wrote on another thread that ... coming from a Pakistani family I can categorically say that many muslim women would have been complicit in the abuse by turning a blind eye ... Many would have known exactly what is going on. They just don't see it as wrong as 'they are only white trash' who probably led their darling sons and brothers on

It was also interesting to see that this post more or less killed the thread - maybe it's not what she was supposed to say??

Puzzled The way I look at it is that actually, the same happens when white men abuse children. The only way that abuse is allowed to continue is because people are frightened of talking about it and acknowledging that it happens.

Think about Saville - it seems that lots of people "unofficially" knew that he was "fond of young girls" or some other such crap, but in fact were wary of doing anything about it, because a lot of those girls were vulnerable in a variety of ways, so didn't seem to "matter" perhaps?

I don't know anything about the previous poster you mention, but what strikes me is that we can all talk with most authority about our own communities - and perhaps that is what she was doing there. In the same way, I was brought up in the Catholic Church, and I can completely see how it was possible that so many priests abused children in the way that they did. Everything the priest said was held as being more important and more true than what anyone else said. It would be very difficult indeed for a child to challenge that status quo. So yes, definitely a cultural element, but unfortunately sexual abuse of children seems to be a fairly universal experience.

Buffy, I really dislike how you keep bringing it back to the they are men link. I think you would object very strongly to men generalising about women in such a way.

Chaos, boys are usually stronger and faster. You can't really deny that. I have actually heard girls are cleverer more often.

Puzzled's post backs up what I was saying about women's socialisation.

MrsWhiskerson Why do you think it is that most perpetrators of rape are men? It is a genuine question.

What wishesandstars said.

If you don't think that men are socialised to see women as lesser, then why do you think that some men of all colours, creeds, races and classes believe that they have the right to rape and abuse women and girls, almost with impunity?

You have said that you don't believe me, so you must have your own hypothesis, and I am interested in knowing what it is.

A "shut off switch"? Ah yes, how true ... either that or the poster will go on the attack, leading to yet more bad feeling all round

I worry that, when the inevitable reports into all this are published, exactly the same thing will happen: the "everybody's racist" crowd will wilfully ignore any bits which touch on culture/race and the those who insist everything's the fault of "these awful foreigners" will completely disregard any other issues raised

For me, any resolution would have to involve everyone addressing their own part in the problem, and - here's the key point - forgoing claims to being somehow protected from criticism

To those who'd no doubt resist that, I'd point out that we all have one mouth but two ears for a reason ...