to start yet another Indyref thread?

[FannyFifer]

Round 3 folks.

We should arrange an Indyref meet up at this stage.

Good morning!

That's a, em, comprehensive range of Scottish matters on this thread From Francis Gay to naked politicians....

If Scotland do become Independent I can see England doing the same & ditching Wales & NI, now that would be interesting

Can you really see that? I don't see why England would want to do it. We really are "better together", and we'll be even better if Scotland leaves and we get all those new jobs coming south.

chocoluvva

I like that leaflet deeedeee. It shows just how bad things were 100 years ago.
I just hope that you have thought carefully about the long-term consequences of a Yes vote. Remember it's a one-way step and you can never come back. If there's a narrow No result you can be sure there will be another referendum before long, with perhaps a better plan.

My sister can vote after all it seems yippee! She got a poll card sent to my parents (last house before moving and still registered address) and phoned the voting people to check who said as she hasn't taken citizenship in her new country, and still has a uk passport, then she can postal vote.

So that's an extra no vote.

Surprised and shocked by the nastiness we've encountered about her being able to do so though. She does hope to return here and I feel as a born and bred scot has more right to a vote than someone from her new country who's only lived here a short while (and is the thickest girl you'd ever meet)

I've seen yes posters are now going up on lamposts and saltires in gardens. I find it all really intimidating. I've never liked flags in gardens tbh.

Sallyingforth how can Uk be better together but then even more better together if Scotland leaves?

I've seen yes posters are now going up on lamposts and saltires in gardens. I find it all really intimidating. I've never liked flags in gardens tbh.

I don't think it's intimidating for people to show their support for the Yes campaign. Granted, there are idiots on each side who take it too far, but I don't have posters up for any reason other than to show support.

I managed to jump out the way of being hit myself when at a Yes stall, helping for the first time. Got a few abusive comments but words don't bother me. We were happy to chat with everyone, and people were encouraged to register without having to declare which way they wanted to vote. I don't think the majority on either side want trouble. It hasn't put me off, as I say, the majority of people are alright.

You answered your own musings AFFL, you're just guessing. We all are. But the best way to
predict your future is to build it.

The poster parallels how challenging contemporary 'norms' is always met by fear by the establishment .

Yes I have thought it all through. Sure you have too.

Morning!

I can see her point TBH Numanoid about it being a bit intimidating and I'd suggest she's not the only one. The polls suggest that No are still in the lead - just taking that at face value that suggests somewhere over half of the population are currently no supporters. Yet how many NO posters have you seen around? Personally despite being in an area that I think is probably dominated by No voters I have seen very, very few.

Why is that? Possibly part of it is that Yes voters have a bit more of a "trying to change things" fervor which makes them more likely to put signs up, but I think there is also a sense of feeling intimidated. I've heard numerous people say "I wouldn't put a No sticker on my car/sign in my window, it would get tanned!" or similar. For whatever reason a lot of No voters are feeling intimidated.

I've heard that before, about No voters feeling intimidated; my own mum, in her 80's, said she was too scared to put a BT poster in her window. Which means someone is doing some serious scaremongering, given she lives in a very douce part of Fife, with long-established neighbours and no rowdy parts... Meanwhile, a representative from permitted No participant Britannica yesterday kicked a woman in the stomache in broad daylight, in central Glasgow and in front of witnesses, and then took the mic to denounce her as "junky scum" while she collapsed in the street... Another Yes woman had two tyres slashed on her car, another has had her soft top cut twice, a man has been convicted of death threats to Salmond while another awaits trial... Jim Sillars has also received death threats, and someone tried to run Salmond off the road.

And the Beeb gives us extensive coverage of Jim Murphy getting egged even though he arranged it himself

Fanny
Sorry if that was ambiguous.
I was talking about Wales, NI and England being "better together" if Scotland left, because of the work coming our way if Scotland leaves. (Financial services, shipbuilding, other defence work etc.)

I am by no means saying there are not dickheads on both sides - there clearly are. Just that for some reason No voters seem to be feeling it more as a whole. I don't know if it's scaremongering - for me personally the few Yes voters I know are all very strident and some of the comments I see on things they post about no voters being scum, traitors etc makes me feel intimidated.

The examples you list are horrible. Someone upthread said they were fed up of hearing that this is divisive but when we're seeing stuff like this happening - and it seems to me that it's ramping up as the vote approaches - then how easy is it going to be for us to go back to normal

I don't think that intimidation tactics can be humped purely on the Yes campaign. Granted I have seen more Yes posters, but I've never intimidated anyone, nor would I want to. One of my family members is voting No, and all I do is avoid discussing the referendum or agree to disagree and move on.

OldLadyKnowsSomething I was at the event where the woman was kicked in the stomach and floored, it was a horrible end to a nice day. :(

I think we probably xposted NUmanoid but I really wasn't saying it was all one sided, I'm sorry if it came across that way.

Ironic timing - just after I posted that I find out that my Yes voting friend's car has been badly damaged. Definitely linked - whoever did is has scratched/keyed straight through the stickers (which were big and on most panels). Hundreds of pounds of damaged on a months old car.

What the f* is wrong with people?!

What I am finding quite interesting locally is how the Labour Party are managing to really alienate people who usually vote for them.

I live in a wee village, you kind of know who votes for who from previous elections chatting to folk, being in the shops, pubs etc & noticing who has what posters up etc.

There are a lot of Yes posters up, and prob around 30% of those are Labour voters, they would usually have posters up & have told me they are voting labour when I have canvassed them in previous years.

By using the terminology they have chosen to describe those in the Yes campaign the Labour Party are seriously disenfranchising their own voters.

Labour voters who are voting yes have been pretty much ostracised from their party, one ex councillor I know can no longer go to branch meetings as no one will speak to her.

Wonder if this kind of stuff is replicated nationally as Labour trying to ignore it.

It's okay Statistically, I think the campaigns would be a lot nicer if we had MN Yes and No stalls.

Statistically, I think I just read about that in FB! And Yessers are crowdfunding the estimated £400 damage? Awful that it happened, but what a heartwarming response. :)

That's awful statistically, and probably counter-productive too.

I do wonder if that sort of damage is genuinely done by the 'other side', or just yobs out to cause trouble and dissent. I'm only a bystander here but I feel so sorry for you in Scotland that you can't make your decision in peace.

Correction to my last post - people have offered to crowdfund repairs, in fairness there may well be No voters amongst them.

It's not just Yessers who are funding the damage, I've donated a fair amount too.

xposted

games.usvsth3m.com/scotchland-postcode-referendum/ Have we looked at this yet? 91% of 105 voters in my area are Yes... Of course it's just a piece of fun, nothing to stop you "voting" more than once, and it may have been spread by more Yes voters than No, but interesting nonetheless.

Especially as this is farming country, and farmers are tradionally conservative.

(Hope your friends reach their target, Statistically, I donated a wee bit too.)

My results:

In [my postcode], 91% said yes.
In the broader [postcode] area, 80% said yes.
Our current UK average is 61% yes (but in Scotland, it's 78%)

Interesting watching the mob attacking Jim Murphy. If the arguments are so strong in favour of independence, why do the mob need to be so aggressive? Surely, you catch more flies with honey etc etc. The mob and the extreme nutters must be a complete embarrassment to the Yes campaign. Interesting that, when the incident hit the press, Salmond countered with one lone nutter - in the film clips of Murphy's tour you can see and hear hundreds.

Worried about racism as well.