to start yet another Indyref thread?

[FannyFifer]

Round 3 folks.

We should arrange an Indyref meet up at this stage.

[weatherall]

Stoppedlurking- yes, I think carol Craig is spot on with her assessment of the psychology of independence and the effect on public health.

I'm laughing at the idea that Scotland has no money

[OneNight]

What makes you think these are the people to do it, though, Weatherall ? It strikes me that they're just politicians like any other.

[weatherall]

Scotland doesn't have any control of our interest rate now!

This is something that won't change in the short term and is why so many yes supporters want an independent currency eventually.

Not all yes supporters agree with everything in the white paper. It is a diverse movement. Don't try to pidgeon hole us.

Child poverty is caused by Westminster policies which favour those born into money over those born into working class homes. It is a class war by people, including some on this thread, who label the poor and think babies deserve to be poor.

Westminster's attitude to the underprivileged is disgusting and Labour is no saviour as they voted in favour of welfare cuts.

No Westminster party cares about child poverty in Scotland.

Without the full tax powers of independence no Scottish government can fix it either.

Changing the system is the only option left.

[SantanaLopez]

I'll C&P over to thread 4, weatherall.

[OneNight]

I would hope that in the event of a No vote, people would set to to actually do something to change Scotland rather than just offering bread and circuses. The referendum has stimulated enough debate to make that a probability I think.

[StatisticallyChallenged]

There would definitely be a whacking communal hangover in the event of a Yes - the YES crowd will celebrate and get drunk. The NO crowd will commiserate, and get drunk.

Might happen the other way too mind, but I reckon the No voters are more likely to just breathe a sigh of relief and go back to kicking puppies or something.

[weatherall]

Savings- MPs/HOL, Trident. HS2, crossrail, illegal wars, millionaire tax breaks, subsidising pensions and housing benefit.

That all adds up to BILLIONS and that just off the top of my head.

Scotland will be cheaper to run not more expensive.

[OneNight]

I suspect it would last a week if the Scots were lucky - sort of like winning the cup, having a great Saturday night and then having to go in to work on Monday with a hangover.

[stoppedlurking56]

Weatherall: thinking about poverty specifically, do you think that the very fact of having achieved independence will have a positive impact on our society, particularly those currently feeling disenfranchised ? I would hope so. It's hard to put my finger on it but it's something to do with boosting confidence, self-belief, a fresh start free of baggage? Throwing off the Scottish cringe?

[Sallyingforth]

SantanaLopez

SNP will NOT get a currency union. That just is not an option for any Westminster party to concede, even if they did a 180 degree turn. Their own voters will not permit it.

[SantanaLopez]

Part 4

[Roseformeplease]

Child poverty has become such an emotive phrase. It is used so often, I am not sure people really think about what it means. I just wanted to point out that we are being persuaded to vote using emotive language that does not really stand up to close scrutiny.

And, agreed, voting yes, is ridiculous!

[StatisticallyChallenged]

I'm not sure that saying this wouldn't be 'fair' to rUK is a reason not to do it
it's not that it wouldn't be fair, it's that they would quite possibly match it, and more importantly if you are choosing to use someone else's currency then you need to be a little careful about pissing them off. Salmond and co seem to think they live in a vacuum where they can do whatever they want and the rest of the world, and the rUK in particular, won't react.

Re the USA - different country, different set up, hugely different taxation system. Apples and oranges, frankly.

[Sallyingforth]

Why on earth should the Scottish Parliament make do with a flat rate tax adjustment.

Because for the past several years it could have been making very good use of it! You use the tools you have to hand, and this is a damn good one. Refusing to do the job until you get the ideal tool is futile.

[SantanaLopez]

Please answer my questions then weatherall.

• say the SNP get their currency union and Westminster rejects their spending plans. What happens then? The costs of setting up a new state have to be paid, or the state won't run. So savings must be made elsewhere.
  

• Scotland can't control their interest rate, so there is a period of deflation and recession because we're essentially piggybacking on Westminster's and the two countries' economies don't tally up.
  

• How is that going to affect children in poverty?
  

• Plan B: No currency union, no debt, and no assets. No assets includes gold reserves. So, quite simply, there's no money for the Scottish government to spend and no debt to sell to the international markets. Again, massive massive cuts, massive economic upheaval. And, as always, its the struggling people who feel this most.

[stoppedlurking56]

We've certainly exceeded our two minutes of thinking time.

[weatherall]

Well one of the reasons I'm voting yes is to tackle child poverty.

I must be 'ridiculous'.

The Scottish government only has control of 7% of tax in scotland. One of guarantees of independence is that increases to 100%.

[SantanaLopez]

New thread?

[stoppedlurking56]

Just slightly lower - not nil!
Re currency, well, not convinced sterling is such a fabulous currency. It has lost significant value over the decades. And I invoice in various currencies - that wouldn't in itself be a barrier.
Good points being made by many.

[SantanaLopez]

It's the eyes

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Christ that's creepy ItsAll

[Criseyde]

Sallying, there is no need to raise the basic rate of tax by 3% There is a need to raise the top rate of tax. Why on earth should the Scottish Parliament make do with a flat rate tax adjustment. It needs the power to raise one band of tax without changing others.

Statistically, as I pointed out, the top rate of income tax varies wildly within the same country when it comes to North America, where there is a shared language, high mobility, etc. There's no evidence that singular tax changes have any real impact on where people choose to live and work.

Anyway, apparently you're not opposed to an iScotland raising income tax, or lowering corporation tax, so never mind.

[SantanaLopez]

Christ that's creepy ItsAll

[SantanaLopez]

Why on earth not?

Because a monarchy goes against all the principles of a republic, and putting the monarch's face on a coin was and is a way of reminding everyone whose country they are living in.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Can't have a republic and continue to use money with the queen's bloody face on it!

Santana You shock me Surely you realise that an iScotland will have Salmonds face on the currency! www.bettertogether.net/page/-/images/10%20Question%20Marks_3.jpg/@mx_572