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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to start a new Scottish Indyref thread?

999 replies

FannyFifer · 25/08/2014 22:28

Round 2 folks, ding ding!

OP posts:
OldLadyKnowsSomething · 28/08/2014 15:42

There was an online petition re indy for Shetland; open to people globally, it attracted about 1000 signatures. No need for the SNP to "stamp on it". Apart from anything else, an indy Shetland wouldn't have any oil rights at all, they'd just have the 12 miles of seabed surrounding them, and the oilfields are further out than that.

IrnBruTheNoo · 28/08/2014 15:51

Ach that's ashame OldLady, was just about packing my bags to move there in case they did become independent and had right to oil Wink

cozietoesie · 28/08/2014 15:58

I'm afraid that I don't think it's nearly as straightforward as that, OldLady. My understanding is that they could lay claim to a major chunk of the oil revenue currently attributed to the UK/Scotland. (As the Western Isles could for any new deposits found in the Western reaches.) Certainly enough to - at the least - de-stabilize international confidence having regard to potential continuing fragmentation of Scotland.

OldLadyKnowsSomething · 28/08/2014 16:08

And I think you're wrong, cozie, though I'm open to further information.

But as there's no appetite for iShetland, it's a moot point anyway. Scotland is a wealthy country even without the oil, so there need be no destabilising of confidence.

Numanoid · 28/08/2014 16:10

If Shetland became independent I'd move there anyway. Grin If it meant escaping the austerity cuts and I could get a job there, I would. I'd like living on an island much more than living in the city.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 28/08/2014 16:15

If Shetland became independent I'd move there anyway

Definitely a good decision. It really is incredibly beautiful there.

grovel · 28/08/2014 16:15

Tesco, Scotland's largest private sector employer, has got a superstore in Lerwick. No Waitrose though.

feelingmellow · 28/08/2014 16:16

whatever the results of the referendum I foresee a lot of conflict and discontent amongst yes and no voters in Scotland. The ruk will probably pile in as well if they perceive WM is making too many concessions to Scotland against the interests of ruk. There's going to be a lot of hard bargaining going on, that's for sure, and a deterioration of Scots/ruk relations, especially at grass roots.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 28/08/2014 16:16

No Waitrose though

Just changed my mind then Grin

grovel · 28/08/2014 16:18

As we from this thread you need the full facts before making a big decision.

grovel · 28/08/2014 16:19

know from this thread

Numanoid · 28/08/2014 16:19

Definitely a good decision. It really is incredibly beautiful there.

I've never been there, but from seeing photos I definitely agree! I knew a few people from Shetland when I was a student, and according to them it's very safe, and a nice little community (people not having to lock doors for fear of being burgled, their local petrol station accepting money left at the pump if no-one was there to take payment, etc.)
I like the idea of living somewhere like that, where you know your neighbours and can trust practically everyone nearby. Reminds me how much crime there is in the city, and how impersonal it can be.

squoosh · 28/08/2014 16:20

I would go absolutely stir crazy living on Shetland, the very idea makes me shudder and squirm. I would be the Mad Woman of Shetland after living there for one whole week.

squoosh · 28/08/2014 16:21

Drugs are huge in places like Shetland, huge.

Numanoid · 28/08/2014 16:21

Now when I think of it (seeing Lerwick mentioned), I actually saw a job advertised which I'm qualified for and it's more than I make now. Plus DP would have no problem getting a job in his profession if not on Shetland, at least up north, on the mainland. Hmm

OldLadyKnowsSomething · 28/08/2014 16:22

www.scottish.parliament.uk/GettingInvolved/Petitions/islandgroups There's the petition, and I was wrong about the numbers; 1177 online, with a further 135 hardcopy signatures. Not exactly overwhelming enthusiasm for it, then.

ChelsyHandy · 28/08/2014 16:29

Goodness. Well, that's Shetland dismissed. Goodbye to a fairer and more inclusive society already and welcome to a centralised, Edinburgh-based one, where its more northerly citizens are dismissed as drugs-addled fools who don't know their own minds.

I thought the reality of the situation was that the SNP led Scottish Government refused to consider the Shetland petition to put a clause in the White Paper promising to consider a referendum for Shetland to leave Scotland should it become an independent state? ie the Scottish Government just ignored it.

So tell me then exactly how that much vaunted state is representing its people so much better than Westminster?

The act seems to be slipping already.

squoosh · 28/08/2014 16:33

It's hardly dismissing Shetlanders as 'drug addled fools' to say that drugs are an issue on Shetland. Just trying to inject a bit of reality into people's ideas of it as some sort of idyllic outpost.

IrnBruTheNoo · 28/08/2014 16:34

What? You mean to say that Shetland really isn't like 'Shetland' on the telly?!

squoosh · 28/08/2014 16:36

Well they don't all have Glaswegian accents for a start.

OldLadyKnowsSomething · 28/08/2014 16:36

The Scottish gvt has held talks with the councils of Shetland, Orkney and the Western Isles about devolving further powers, these talks are ongoing.

SquirrelledAway · 28/08/2014 16:39

It depends how independent Shetland would become - if an island territory of Scotland, then the 12 mile rule would apply. If fully independent, ie not aligned to either Edinburgh or London, then Shetland could claim a far greater share of territory. And given that the newer fields are west of Shetland this could make an impact.

However, the oil and gas reserve figures being bandied around are a bit meaningless unless you know exactly what is being quoted - reserves are classified in various ways based on class and certainty. The actual answer for proved and probable reserves is around 8 to 9 million boe, nowhere near the figures of 16 and 24 million that are currently being bandied around - these would most likely include unproven reserves and resources that are hoped to exist and are likely to be very difficult and currently uneconomic to extract.

42 boe has already been extracted, meaning that 80% of North Sea oil and gas has already gone. What is left needs a huge amount of investment to retrieve - at current spending rates it will take 50 years and the infrastructure won't last that long. It's hard to see companies investing in a mature field to prop up the infrastructure when there are better pickings elsewhere. For the oil and gas industry to continue to flourish it needs investment and a more generous fiscal regime, ie less taxation. The UK government is already providing incentives to delay decommissioning of fields.

More importantly, the question to answer is how will Scotland fund itself? In 2013 the direct tax take from oil and gas production for the whole of the UK was £4.67 billion and falling. This compares with annual spending of the Scottish government (plus UK spending on Scotland) running at £65.2 billion. Hence, direct taxation of oil and gas production may account for less than 7% of the Scottish budget. Where the other 93% is going to come from?

frankie80 · 28/08/2014 16:43

Just had a McD drive thru, there was a sign on the window along the lines of the Scottish govt are making us charge 5p for bags. You don't see that down south do you? Im told mcd support the union. I have a family friend high up in that company.

chubbyhez · 28/08/2014 16:44

Alcohol and drug abuse is high in isolated communities, disproprtionatly so.

chubbyhez · 28/08/2014 16:45

frankie Wales already charge for carrier bags.

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