to start a new Scottish Indyref thread?

[FannyFifer]

Round 2 folks, ding ding!

I think I opened a Google cached link on a search but it was there

Must have been an interesting search term you used Anyway, did you read the article? Its about how an elected representative wrote a really horrible piece about two ordinary people (genuine ordinary people, not the BT version)

Yes, it's there, I linked it. But it's hardly recent (and if you read it, "arsehole" is a perfectly valid word to use), although your post suggests it's dominant. And you also referenced an item from today, how did that appear on your Google cached link? (And why not use a fresh search anyway?)

Numanoid It will be fair because people actually living and working in Scotland will decide how its governed

No, a country is fair because of the institutions and constitutional checks and balances enshrined in its make up to ensure those in charge behave properly.

You are deluding yourself if you think the centralist Scottish Government would let the people, en masse, decide how its governed at all.

Must have been an interesting search term you used

Ireland had a different history of conquest and colonisation, an independent Wales too could rightly argue it wanted to oust a foreign imposed regime. (But please don't Aunty Olwen!)

You are deluding yourself if you think the centralist Scottish Government would let the people, en masse, decide how its governed at all.

Unless they unilaterally change the voting system, Scots will get the MSPs and hence the policies they vote for.

I see you are equally charming I Google your wonderful site by its name the results near the top brought me instantly to that article. Once on this wonderful site I looked at the homepage hence the reference to "slithering"
No I didn't read it. Why would I read it if the writer is so illiterate he has to resort to such crude terminology to make his point.

And as for "slithering" ? Quite pathetic.

You are deluding yourself if you think the centralist Scottish Government would let the people, en masse, decide how its governed at all.

I'd rather take a chance at things being better than deluding myself that Cameron et al are ever going to instigate change. I quite like my Human Rights, even if Theresa May thinks they're not quite necessary.

Sorry, yes I excluded Ireland although even that situation is neither a historic precedence nor a ringing endorsement!

If you google "Wings Over Scotland arse" you do come up with a great many arse references, including "arsequackery" and "kiss my fat hairy Scottish arse".

It doesn't give the impression of a high level of conscious debate, rather like various sacked World Bank and Uzbekistan ambassadors. We have plenty of quality academics in Scotland, Britain and the EU - why are the Yes campaign so keen to pedal the views of these men instead?

Some people need to have a sense of humour on this thread...

You better like the currently unresolved Scottish version of your human rights Numanoid, because that's what the White Paper is promising you on independence. Not the human rights or international treaty membership you have now.

I take it you are interested in Scotland? Why don't you do a little investigation into how City of Edinburgh Council treats its citizens' freedom of information requests?

City of Edinburgh Council are 'inept' as DH puts it. Glad I don't live there, as the rate of council tax doesn't reflect the quality of services you're getting at the moment. It's a total shambles.

I had an interesting meeting with a former neighbour today which made me think. An older man, we did that thing of politely mentioning the referendum in vague, safe terms, and he initially sounded vaguely like a Yesser. I think he assumed that because I was younger than him, I would be a Yes supporter. Then when I took that step that so many No voters who previously avoided discussing politics did of saying I would leave the country if there was a Yes vote, he did a remarkable about turn and started complaining about the pile of Yes leaflets coming through his letterbox.

Now, I can't say with any certainty whether he is a Yes voter, a No voter or an undecided (I think he is a quite No), but what is becoming clearer to me is that many people feel inhibited from saying they will vote Yes.

I think when you have a country with that sort of culture of perceived intimidation, you have already failed in some way. So for that I blame the existing institutions in Scotland and the SNP. This is no longer a politically tolerant country.

www.google.co.uk/search?q=wings+over+scotland&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari That's what I get when I google "Wings Over Scotland", not an arse in sight. Perhaps it's a browser issue?

why are the Yes campaign so keen to pedal the views of these men instead?

The official Yes campaign publicly distanced itself from Wings a loooong time ago.

Given that in iScotland my Human Rights would be part of a written constitution, I'd feel more secure.

There's nothing more frustrating than having a well-reasoned, respectful 'conversation' with someone who then whips out WoS or the wee blue book which has been comprehensively torn to shreds via #wbbcorrections on twitter.

Has everyone on this thread went arse crazy?

On the Wings sight right now, the worst phraseology I can find is "Well readers, not for the first time you left us gobsmacked sideways".

Its usually more sweary and abusive, but the general trend on the homepage today is intolerant and unpleasant.

I feel sorry for you if you think that sort of terminology is an acceptable way of expressing your views in public. I think you would have to be very accustomed to quite abusive language to find that not unusual.

I'm embarrassed that people from outwith Scotland will start associating Scots with badly behaved thugs, particularly after Salmond's behaviour in the latest debate.

I think that as Chelsy suggested s/he must have googled "Wings of Scotland arse"

It doesn't give the impression of a high level of conscious debate, rather like various sacked World Bank and Uzbekistan ambassadors. We have plenty of quality academics in Scotland, Britain and the EU - why are the Yes campaign so keen to pedal the views of these men instead?

That doesn't means Wings is incorrect or makes invalid points, rather that he caters for a broader audience than academics. Many Scottish academics have made valuable contributions on both sides of the debate, however, as it is not their full time job they cannot afford to dedicate the time and the resources that Stu can.

I think when you have a country with that sort of culture of perceived intimidation, you have already failed in some way. So for that I blame the existing institutions in Scotland and the SNP. This is no longer a politically tolerant country.

As far as I am aware most attacks have been on Yes supporters? Either way I think most people are quite reticent about their personal politics and unlikely to start an discussion unless they share the politics of the other person. This goes for both sides.

what is becoming clearer to me is that many people feel inhibited from saying they will vote Yes.... I think when you have a country with that sort of culture of perceived intimidation, you have already failed in some way.

The overwhelming message on the referendum threads is that people feel inhibited in saying they are a No voter (in RL).

Maybe it happens on both sides. I know plenty of Yes voters who are keeping their voting intention very quiet, and I've heard that some No voters are doing the same. No-one should be made to feel ashamed of their view. :)

Itsallgoingtobefine I think that as Chelsy suggested s/he must have googled "Wings of Scotland arse"

Attention to detail please. I didn't suggest that. I did a search on the words "Wings over Scotland arse" of my own volition, because I had a feeling, which was proved right, that the word "arse" would occur quite a lot in Wing's writings. Nothing to do with what any other poster did or did not do.

LOL ChelsyHandy if anything, your posts are giving me a bit of entertainment for the afternoon. Thanks for that :)

I better get back to my thuggish behaviour when I'm not MNetting.

Most people I speak to do not openly air their political views, I think that's actually quite common and not specific to only Scotland.

DH and myself openly discuss politics within the home, but I personally don't go out of my way to impose my politic views on others when out at the supermarket or chatting with neighbours. I am aware if I'm polar opposite I'd end up causing offence and it's just not worth it.

www.google.co.uk/search?q=mumsnet+arse&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari The result from googling "Mumsnet arse". Does that mean we have a low level of conscious debate here too?