To hope that I can ask about FF without being shot down in flames?

[Darksideofthemoon88]

I'm interested in WHY people choose to FF if not for medical reasons (ie they can't because of medication they have to take, or because their baby was very premature and is unable to suckle) - I've seen a lot of threads where people assert that FF was best for them/their family/their baby or that they chose to FF without trying BF, and I'm curious as to why. Genuinely curious I'm not interested in fighting with anyone about what's best or right; I'd just like to read about why people FF because I honestly don't know. In the interests of full disclosure though (I know how MNs feel about this! ), I am a breastfeeding mother.

Finally read the entire thread (plenty of time on my hands as pinned to sofa by Velcro PFB).

PFB is 4 weeks old and was fed formula from day 1 as he refused to latch (excessively sleepy) and are now mix feeding (BF as much as possible with FF top ups). I thought I was pretty pragmatic about feeding outcomes but have found myself crying to MWs and HVs and worried I was tipping myself into PND whilst we tried to get BFing established.

I used to work in health policy and health promotion/marketing so have seen the genesis of some of the current advertising and NHS practice first hand. And whilst I can understand why BFing is advocated and promoted, I think there are huge risks in demonising formula - this thread had many examples of where the health and wellbeing of both mother and baby suffered as result of this.

I've also done some academic research on feminist thought on infant feeding, and frankly it is largely notable for its absence (particularly compared to things like reproductive rights etc). My theory is that it's been largely ignored because it doesn't really fit comfortably in any school of feminist thought. And as a result I think we're really lacking in decent ways of framing how feeding choices relate to modern female identities. Which is part of what always makes the BF/FF debate so challenging.

I'm probably not making any sense?

Vaginal delivery isn't better,going by the injuries and problems many of my friends have been left with.

Really once you get the onto solids who gives a shit
It not something you talk about fir hours anymore

U think it's really important at the time but it's really not

Seagulls, sections aren't the whole answer either: a friend of mine almost bled to death after a section. She lost her womb, to save her life.

Moral of the story is, births have their pros and cons. Methods of nappies have their pros and cons. Feeding methods have their pros and cons.

As long as babies are fed, have something on their bum and are born safe, that's the important thing. Not delving into the hows and whys in order to make someone who did it differently feel bad.

Pistol don't forget the women that quietly go about their business BFing their babies without feeling the need to discuss it, comment on other's methods or even think about it that much.

plate congratulations enjoy every single moment of your squishy little baby because time will fly over so quickly. My PFB turned five this weekend and my PLB (perfect last born) will be 6mo this week. It seems five minutes ago that they were 4wks old.

Well yes Mehsmum but it's good as an option isn't it?! If the other option is death?!

My PLB is going to SCHOOL in a few days

How on earth did that happen?

My firstborn has a beard. And he can remember breastfeeding.

The rates of starting to BF but seitching to FF are pretty high in the UK. We see (anecdotally from the thread) that switching to FF is often a gut wrenching decision as most new mothers have taken on board (through NHS bombardment) the "breast is best" message. Ignoring those who never initiate BF, there seems to be a dearth of posts saying "it was a bit uncomfy and I'd seen an advert for cow and gate follow on, so I thought, why not". Suggesting that marketing plays a big role for those women is a slap in the face.

It would be interesting to see what proportion of those not initiating BF have tried it with a previous pregnancy and had problems.

I remember when DD was born (emcs for missed breech, barely any amniotic fluid left, cord wrapped around her legs, remaining cord lying on top of my cervix) and I got home. The community MW came out the day after, walked in and declared "well you've been through the mill with this one, haven't you!" then had a little hold of the baby and told me "these are the ones we used to lose".

Could have tried for a VBAC with DS2 but went overdue so decided on an ELCS. In hindsight it was for the best. He was stuck! Who knew section babies could get stuck? I didn't. They had to rummage around for him, tugging and pulling, to the point that I was bruised from my the bottom of my ribcage down to the tops of my legs, purple and yellow and it took nearly ten weeks for it all to fade. The surgeon found that the lower segment of my womb was very thin and that my old scar was beginning to separate. In her opinion it would have ruptured if I'd attempted a VBAC.

So yes, sections are marvellous things in my opinion.

I can't believe my PFB will be 8 months on the 31.. I know this probably is not the done thing but look how tiny she was first night at home please ignore DH boxers.

I think in general the medical professionals need to listen to mothers more when it comes to the mental wellbeing of new mums and that goes for births as well as infant feeding. Maternal mental health is vitally important, more so than any debate over ff or bfing. The ability for a mother to bond with her child and care for her child effectively and with empathy has more impact on any new generation than whether someone was bf or ff.

I had a terrible time with my second child when I requested my elective section. I had a difficult long labour with dd but everyone wanted me to have my son vaginally as they "knew I could do it". Just because physically my vagina worked didn't mean I wanted to put it through that trauma again.

I fought tooth and nail. I had 3 consultant appointments. I even told the head consultant I would sue them if they made me go through a vaginal birth as it would cause me stress and depression. I had a feeling something wasn't right but no one would listen to me - all they focused on was getting me to have a vaginal birth.

Finally they agreed..The section was great - except they discovered on opening me up that I had grade 4 placenta previa. I lost 3 litres of blood and had 2 blood transfusions.

I feel if they had listened to me saying something wasn't quite right they would have been better prepared for my placenta issue. As it was I had to wait nearly an hour for blood as I have a rare blood type and they had no blood readily available.

If they hadn't been so focused on figures and "natural" birth maybe they would have accepted my request for a section as fine in itself and not passed me off as some neurotic mother.

Oh well. Alls well now. But I really do wish the nhs and so on would put mothers mental health before what they perceive to be best because it really isn't always.

This my is what my PFB thinks of people who think he's hard done by for being FF

Just to be clear - I just think they overlooked my feeling that something wasn't right. They were just concerned with getting me to have a vaginal birth. I would have wanted a c section regardless.

Fairy I totally understand where you are coming from. I have lost count of the number of times I have debated/discussed the maternal birthing and feeding options. What I have been most disappointed to experience is how inadequate access to CS and FF information is, so women can make truly informed decisions. I have always felt its shortsighted to focus solely on VB or BF. The NHS is so focused on reducing CS rates and increasing BF rates that I believe they are neglecting their responsibilities to those women that believe a CS or FF is the right thing for them.

It saddens me that the very people that should be supporting all of us are too busy pushing the party line to hit targets rather than truly listening to what we want and we feel we need.

Bear cute baby.

what's with all the 'it's cultural' shit? lots of women on here have said they didn't want to bf because they hated the feeling / sensation of it. Can't be arsed to count the comments as it's just not that important - so long as babies are fed but lots have.

Bear and little pea soooo sweet

Plate - You are quite right in that a feminist analysis of bf-ing and bf promotion is well overdue. Many posters seem to focus purely on weight loss and one campaign even had a picture of a smaller handbag (!) as a breastfeedling incentive.

I have loved Pistol's posts on here.

I think we have to accept that many women tried breastfeeding and have chosen not to continue. That to my mind, is an informed choice that should be respected.

What are the alternatives - increase the price of formula? Make it prescription only? Doing that would only cause tremendous suffering to mothers and babies. Although I suspect a few posters on here would be quite gleeful at the thought of that.

So bearing that in mind, I think that a lot of the money spent on bf promotion is a huge waste of money that should be spent elsewhere, better staffing in maternity and neonatal units would be one idea.

I don't understand the zeal people have about bf-ing. I don't understand why some people put themselves through so much suffering to do it either. Most of all, I don't understand why if other people breastfeed matters so much to other people.

Bf or ff, the child is fed.

Love the pictures

As you can see, my DD is devastated that she is formula fed...

I only checked this thread to see if there was another update from bear. I'm so glad I did!!

And Moomin what a cutie. I bet there are a million and one captions to accompany that photo!

Thank you for posting the pics. Beautiful little babies

Devere i have found some of your comments to me quite unkind. And they have upset me.
I dont think i am passive- aggressive. I think that comment was uncalled for.
Mt advertising "turnaround" was nothing more than a sarcastic remark. I don't think i should have to detail every minutiae of a point in order to avoid being accused of being incapable of debate. In response to me saying i didn't have the energy to debate you said it wasn't the "energy" i lacked. Of course your statements made me think you were suggesting i was not smart enough to debate with you. Thats not PA, that is what i thought. But I'm then not allowed to suggest you would imply that because of your experience with your son.

And to some of the other posters, i have not been judgemental about feeding and its frustrating and a bit upsetting to be accused of that. Just because i bf does not mean i cant reasonably be interested in other ppls motivations for choosing to ff.