To hope that I can ask about FF without being shot down in flames?

[Darksideofthemoon88]

I'm interested in WHY people choose to FF if not for medical reasons (ie they can't because of medication they have to take, or because their baby was very premature and is unable to suckle) - I've seen a lot of threads where people assert that FF was best for them/their family/their baby or that they chose to FF without trying BF, and I'm curious as to why. Genuinely curious I'm not interested in fighting with anyone about what's best or right; I'd just like to read about why people FF because I honestly don't know. In the interests of full disclosure though (I know how MNs feel about this! ), I am a breastfeeding mother.

Great article and yy to the cortisol theory.All of my 3 visibly relaxed and were happier/more contented when they completely moved onto formula.Not being starving I'm sure helped however I'm sure drinking milk chock full of cortisol,breathing,feeling and hearing the consistent anxiety sure as hell wasn't helping them to relax.

I know it's cool and morally 'good' to care about nationwide breastfeeding rates and what others are doing, but I really don't. DD is happy and very healthy, formula works for our family, it means I can carry on at uni in September without having had to take any time out, it means I can be physically healthy because I can take my medication, it's great for us. And if the disadvantages aren't seen on an individual level but on society as a whole... well, sorry, but as long as my DD is happy and fine, that's the most important thing to me.

I will not accept responsibility for other people struggling to breastfeed because I contribute to the amount of people formula feeding. That isn't my responsibility.

Soverylucky, I mentioned that study, though I am sure I was not the first one. It's something that chimes with many women's experiences. Overall, pnd is less likely in bf women, but if you look at women who bf and then switched to ff because of a poor experience the risk shoots up.

The right response is to ensure that those women who do choose to breastfeed get what they need to have a good and rewarding experience, and those who don't, and who switch, are recognised as a vulnerable group.

BTW, I really don't understand the idea that surveys reduce women to statistics. Conducting surveys means recording experiences and then number crunching what you get, with a view to making sure public resources are being used in the best way. You might do a survey into (for example) pre term birth, to make sure there are sufficient NICU facilities. That's not reducing sick babies to statistics. That's making sure we know what's happening in public health.

As for accuracy of stats, the current stats collected locally ask for exclusive and predominant bf AFAIK, so a woman mainly bf with small amounts of formula would be in that category.

Some of this makes uncomfortable reading because so many women imho have wanted to breastfeed and had trouble, been unable to, felt bad about it and as a result have unresolved feelings of anger and regret.

My DH the other day swanned in and told me he had heard on -the radio (he does this a lot ) about the studies showing that women who bf have comparatively low rated of PND. But, paradoxically, women who try and are unable to bf have significantly high levels of PND.
So, successful breastfeeding is good for women as well as babies, even if to avoid an increased risk of PND.

Upthread ppl made comments about the influence of formula companies, the cultural pressure to ff, the demise of the female skill of bf. imo, these are the real enemies of women and babies, not ppl who speak positively about breastmilk and breastfeeding.

It is not militant or judgemental to be clear and enthusiastic about feeding babies with their mother's milk.

X post

It is not militant or judgemental to be clear and enthusiastic about feeding babies with their mother's milk.

Of course it isn't.

But is militant and judgemental to be negative towards those who feed babies with formula.

it is also unreasonable to suggest women who don't walk over hot coals daily should be imprisoned.
But i haven't seen that on this thread any more than i have seen ppl being negative about women who ff.

I think someone needs to speak up for the other side of the argument - to say how a baby is fed is important and that our situation with feeding in the UK is not good, with so few babies being breastfed for more than a few weeks.

As one example, I think this is negative. It implies parents that FF their babies don't think how their babies are fed is important and that's why our feeding situation in the UK is not good. That suggestion is extremely negative. Now my interruption may be incorrect and I am sure Mini will clarify her comment if that's the case.

Really? Amanda really?

So the cracks about spending more time reading about buggies than feeding choices wasn't to make ff women feel bad? This was amongst other similarly shitty comments.

tiktok self centred?

That makes no sense Apart from it being incredibly rude. Mind you, not surprised at that sort of response.

BF is very important to you. Everyone knows that. It isn't to most women. They do or they don't. So no, sorry, stats and discussions are irrelevant and tedious to most of us.

This

Statistics were really fucking useful for me when I was trying to make a decision as to whether to have an induction for gestational diabetes, for choosing my children's schools, for deciding whether it was safe to let my children walk to the shops or whether I should worry about them being kidnapped by a paedophile on their way

Again with the rudeness. Why?

Shall I tell you something about stats?

My daughter had a 12:100,000 risk of getting cancer.
She got it.
She had an 85% chance of a cure.
She died.
My OH had a 1:650 chance of getting MS.
He has it.

Statistics are just numbers and if you think they will protect your children from being abducted you are an idiot.

It pains me, as an advocate for BFing and someone who has bf four of my children, that is always those who profess to be pro BFing who present themselves so badly on these threads.

As for accuracy of stats, the current stats collected locally ask for exclusive and predominant bf AFAIK, so a woman mainly bf with small amounts of formula would be in that category.

Then I'd ignore 2012 stats because that's not what happened to me

Devere for what you have experienced and no parent should have to suffer such a loss. I hope you don't mind me saying this.

Lots off ppl have said they don't ca about bf.
They don't care about statistics, they don't believe that bf is important.
I believe that many ppl some more time researching their choice of buggy than their choice of feeding.
Can you honestly say that someone who says they don't give a shiny shit about bf, and they don't think it would have made any difference to their child spent a lot of time researching that?
I don't believe it. And i don't judge it either.
And i do know that most ppl spend an inordinate amount of time checking out buggies and slings.
Me included.

Oh god. Sorry deverethemuzzler

I said before I have not read the whole thread so maybe I have missed posts which have judged women for using formula. I know from experience that referring to health differences in bf/ff babies can be interpreted as judging their mothers one way or the other so it is possible the same has happened here.

It is a shame when a mother's self pride in overcoming difficulties to bf is interpreted as a judgment on those who decided not to bf.

A mother should be able to say 'this experience was important to me. I struggled with it. I am happy I did so and I feel proud I stuck to it despite the problems.' That's not smug or judgmental or critical of others who had different goals

A mother said to me the other day 'sometimes I am wary of saying even when ppl ask, yes, I am bf my nine month old, and yes , we love it' because I worry that they think I am making some sort of comment on them'

This same mother has met a number of judgmental comments from ppl since her baby was about six mths old. It's a real shame.

Devere what you experienced was desperately horrendously tragic.

I was not rude to you. I said you were self centred because you told people not to discuss stats. You were a bit rude about that, but no matter I pointed out that you wanted nil discussion on stats because you were not interested in stats. I disagreed that this would apply to everyone.

That's it really. Stats describe. They don't predict what will happen to individuals and can't do so, ever.

Hope that explains it better.

But up to six months a ff mother will have had equivalent comments and judgements. It's shitty all round.

And many of the people saying they don't care about bf are actually saying they don't care about how another woman's baby is fed. They care a great deal about how their own is fed. There is a difference.

Stats don't describe. You could have stats on each and every poster on this thread and whether they bf or not. The stories underlying the numbers wouldn't be there though. Too much is made of statistics (particularly by the government) without the willingness to take rye time to understand what is actually happening.

How have I presented myself badly , devere? I have not judged or criticised. I have taken issue with poor arguments but that's what a talk board is for. Why would people who are advocates for bf mothers (actually I advocate for all mothers and work for all mothers to have the feeding experience they want) be expected to be any better at avoiding inadvertent offence than anyone else?

It is a shame when a mother's self pride in overcoming difficulties to bf is interpreted as a judgment on those who decided not to bf.

I don't believe anyone has made this interpretation. Of course women that are successful in achieving a positive experience with regards whichever method of feeding should be proud (BF or FF). What is judgemental is when you have people spouting rubbish about FF parents not understanding BF benefits, or assuming they haven't done any research or implying they don't feel how their babies are fed is important etc.. That is most definitely very judgmental.

your opinion is that they are 'poor arguments', which along with your 'self centred' crack adds up to a pretty high handed attitude.

Are you really telling me you cannot support bfing mothers without quoting stats at them?

That they are vital to your work? I don't mean that you know them, but that you must present them?

Tiktok what on earth is the point of posting on a thread if you haven't read the whole thing? To me that proves precisely the point that so many pro breastfeeders are disinterested in the opinions of those who do.