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Original poster

To hope that I can ask about FF without being shot down in flames?

999 replies

Darksideofthemoon88 · 23/08/2014 12:58

I'm interested in WHY people choose to FF if not for medical reasons (ie they can't because of medication they have to take, or because their baby was very premature and is unable to suckle) - I've seen a lot of threads where people assert that FF was best for them/their family/their baby or that they chose to FF without trying BF, and I'm curious as to why. Genuinely curious I'm not interested in fighting with anyone about what's best or right; I'd just like to read about why people FF because I honestly don't know. In the interests of full disclosure though (I know how MNs feel about this! Grin ), I am a breastfeeding mother.

OP posts:
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tobysmum77 · 25/08/2014 12:07

mine definitely didn't work properly. Exactly the same thing with 2 babies.

WorraLiberty · 25/08/2014 12:08

Well it does matter to me, the widespread use of formula milk makes breastfeeding difficult.

Difficult for you?

How did that work?

Aeroflotgirl · 25/08/2014 12:11

We don't put pressure on other parts of the body to work 100% of tge time, suddenly 97% of the population of mothers breasts should be of fine working order and should be able to bf, that's nearly all women right. No account of favors that could inhibit bf. stress can affect milk production, I have seen studies supporting this, I need to seek them out. So if the mother is exhausted and feeling dreadful, their supply will be lower.

tobysmum77 · 25/08/2014 12:13

but tiktok one thing I genuinely find surprising based on research, anecdotal evidence is that bf'ing doesnt make more difference.

WorraLiberty · 25/08/2014 12:13

Equally, though, as an autonomous adult, it would be nice (though not legally enforceable!) if she could own her decision/choice not to bf without denigrating discussion points or ignoring factual info, or assuming breastfeeding info and support and research is designed to judge her as a mother.

It would be lovely wouldn't it?

And if other women took their noses out of her business it would be even nicer.

I don't see mothers assuming breastfeeding info and support and research is designed to judge them.

What I often see is other women judging them...

combust22 · 25/08/2014 12:13

The use of formula milk erodes breastfeeding skills in the community.
In countries where breastfeeding rates are very high problems are much rarer.
Many Mums have never seen anyone breastfeed, they have no relatives who have breastfed, no one on hand to help.

SeagullsAndSand · 25/08/2014 12:15

" There are some unpleasantly aggressive and defensive posts in this thread for no good reason" err where?Hmm

TheRealAmandaClarke · 25/08/2014 12:16

Eloquent post tiktok

tiktok · 25/08/2014 12:16

Widespread use of formula milk does impact on the experience of breastfeeding - of course it does.

This is why you get massive variations in bf/ff, because people tend to do what feels to them as 'normal' and they find doing something 'abnormal' difficult - in a context where very few women bf, they don't have the cultural/family knowledge of what to expect with bf and often face overt criticism for even trying.

If you are struggling with a baby who (for example) is making feeding painful to you, what might be the difference if your experience is
i) your mother saying you are disgusting and your friend saying you are mad and
ii) your mother agreeing it's painful and getting some help for you and your friend giving you a hug and telling you it happened to her, too, and it got better

I'm happy for formula to be easily available to anyone who wants/needs it.

dreamingbohemian · 25/08/2014 12:18

tiktok if you HAD read the full thread, it would be clear that what people object to is not simple statements of fact but the judgment that comes along with it -- that ff mums could try harder to bf, that they prioritise themselves over their babies, that they are manipulated by marketing or ignorant, etc.

Statements of fact are fine but not when they extrapolate from that into any judgment of what women do.

Not to mention it's poor taste to come onto a thread soliciting opinions from ff mums and start banging on about how bf is better.

And do you really equate the sadness a woman feels at having to use formula with the sadness a woman feels about not being able to have children? Really?

Aeroflotgirl · 25/08/2014 12:19

Yes and no combust, women use formula who who planned to bf but for whatever reason with all the support available just could not do it, myself included. Formula was there as baby needed to be fed, and could nit get her nutrients from me, I suspect because of her SNs and also I was stressed so my supply mabey wasn't as good. I had to give formula to dd or she was going to be admitted to hospital and given it there as the main thing she needed to be fed properly to get her weight up.

Mrsjayy · 25/08/2014 12:19

So what there is formula in the chemists in many countries breast feeding is the only option for them but I guess with that there is other sets of problems like disease malnutrion needing another lactating woman to feed baby which countries never formula feed combust because I am sure most countries will if the option is there

catgirl1976 · 25/08/2014 12:21

It's not really a skill is it?

I gave birth to DS, was left in a room, shoved my breast in his mouth and he fed.

I'd never seen anyone breast feed before IRL. Nor had I seen anyone bottle feed before. I'd been breast fed myself, but obviously, I don't remember that.

They sent a breast feeding tutor round later. I was Confused. The principle of the thing was pretty straightforward to me.

Where it's not straight forward it's generally down to a problem. Some of those problems can be overcome with some support and guidance. Poor latch etc.

The rest of them can't be overcome, no matter how many La Leche consultants you send round.

Boysclothes · 25/08/2014 12:24

It is a skill. Well, getting a decent latch is. It's like any motor skill where you have to use your limbs in a certain way to achieve the result. I always think of it rather like knitting.

catgirl1976 · 25/08/2014 12:29

I'm tempted to add it to my CV now :)

SeagullsAndSand · 25/08/2014 12:30

Yy re the fertility issueShock. Just wow.

I speak as somebody who endured 10 years of IVF to get my dc(including a near death experience in the process). Prior to dc I wanted to bf,it didn't work out.There was sadness in my switching but it was zilch compared to the agony of infertility.

I risked my body and health in order to have dc,I tried my best with bfing however the latter defeated me.I would be the first to say more support is needed for those who want to bf or battle on but the implication that those who switch to ffing just don't try hard enough is frankly laughable.

ithoughtofitfirst · 25/08/2014 12:32

Eh catgirl ?

I thought i took to it quite well but had to ask for reassurance a few times about the way he was latched on etc

Deverethemuzzler · 25/08/2014 12:32

I think this is one of the least mad FF/BF threads I have seen on MN.

I am glad.

I want to be able to say that I enjoyed BFing and found it easy (after initial few weeks with DC1). I didn't like FF because I found it tiring and difficult.

I think it would be amazing if all women found it easy and pleasant to BF their babies.

I wish people who FF didn't think that BFers were all judgmental and smug.
I wish people who BF didn't think that FFer were lazy, thick or selfish.

I think FF in developing countries is an entirely different kettle of fish and shouldn't really be included in these discussions.

I think it is really, really important that women are given support to BF.
I think it is really, really important that women are shown how to FF and make up FF safely.

I think we have to take responsibility for ourselves and automatically interpret any attempt at either of the above as a 'forcing' or 'judging'.

Thats it really.

catgirl1976 · 25/08/2014 12:32

There should be support and no judgement for all women feeding their babies, no matter how they do it.

It's beyond me why that's not the case.

WorraLiberty · 25/08/2014 12:35

Some women who really want to formula feed, should breastfeed just in case they'll come across someone in years to come, who needs to be shown how to do it?

More pressure on a woman whose just given birth anyone?

I really don't see it as a skill that's going to die out just because formula is available as a choice.

tobysmum77 · 25/08/2014 12:37

I had pnd after the birth of my first daughter seagulls. The bf'ing failure played a part in this and possibly was the main cause.

I'm sure it doesn't compare to what you went through but it ruined a year of my life.

WorraLiberty · 25/08/2014 12:37

*So - not 'some'

SeagullsAndSand · 25/08/2014 12:40

Would just add if women who fail to bf are being left feeling extremely depressed because of it not working out then the system is putting far too much pressure on before they even start trying.The literature everywhere never,ever includes the reality or even gives so much as a warning that it might not work out and that it isn't the end of the world if it doesn't.

SeagullsAndSand · 25/08/2014 12:44

Toby I had PND with dd after she ended up in SCBU thanks to our bfing debacle and it was shit but compared to facing a life without children it was very different and the two just don't compare.Perhaps zilch was not a good choice of words.Non comparable would be better.Apologies.

tiktok · 25/08/2014 12:45

Oh blimey....I am not saying that the pain of infertility is the same pain as not being able to breastfeed in every woman. It may well be for some, it may well not be for others, it's not a competition! We don't (usually) get to choose the things we feel sad about - it just happens.

I was pointing out that to say to someone in pain about something - anything, but in this case I chose two things were mothers often feel their bodies let them down in some way - that they are making a fuss, that what they are sad about is not worth being sad about, is unkind and unhelpful.

I also know that the sadness of not being able to breastfeed is real, and it carries with it a serious risk of postnatal depression. So I am not way off the mark in highlighting it.