To hope that I can ask about FF without being shot down in flames?

[Darksideofthemoon88]

I'm interested in WHY people choose to FF if not for medical reasons (ie they can't because of medication they have to take, or because their baby was very premature and is unable to suckle) - I've seen a lot of threads where people assert that FF was best for them/their family/their baby or that they chose to FF without trying BF, and I'm curious as to why. Genuinely curious I'm not interested in fighting with anyone about what's best or right; I'd just like to read about why people FF because I honestly don't know. In the interests of full disclosure though (I know how MNs feel about this! ), I am a breastfeeding mother.

I am not sure why that is a confusing statement so i don't know if you'll be satisfied with my reply seagull
But the point is that a great many ppl do not buy into the idea that bf is especially beneficial, there is a strong misconception that there is very little difference between human milk and formulated cows milk, and a disregard for the research that shows how good our milk is for our babies compared to the alternatives. Plenty of ppl think that with clean water and correct preparation formula is pretty much the me as human milk. It isnt. That doesn't mean that formula is evil, or poisonous, just that ppl underestimate the benefits of breast milk.
The research on both is easily available.
Anyway, as i said. Im leaving the thread. Not ignoring, in case anyone thinks im not responding.

Nobody has said breast isn't better but that for many it isn't better enough when other factors are taken into account.

Stacks of parenting choices are better,no parent manages all the best choices from newborn to 18.

It's all about perspective and doings one's best overall during those 18 years.

I really wish the "Hide Poster" option had been included in the update.

mission accomplished eh?
Not at all.
I thought the op posed an interesting question.
And i thought lots of ppls answers were interesting.
But if some says they ff because theres no significant benefit in bf then its fair enough, imho, to address that point.

I dont think minifingers is deserving of some the unpleasant responses here. It's a bit "pack" like. And i felt that some of he comments were valid.

Stacks of parenting choices are better,no parent manages all the best choices from newborn to 18.

Exactly

And as I said upthread, 1 in every 3 children are starting school overweight/obese.

So it would seem many parents can't manage the best choices from newborn to 4yrs old, let alone 18.

In the grand scheme of things, the type of milk you choose to feed your baby is just one of 1000s of decisions you'll make for your child.

And again, it's no-one else's business.

The trouble with posters like minifingers is that they tend to come across as patronising. I have yet to meet a formula feeding mother who isn't aware of the benefits of breastfeeding. Just because someone chooses to formula feed doesn't mean they automatically need to be "educated".

I know all about the benefits of breastfeeding. I still chose not to. I come from a family of breastfeeding women. My mum breastfed. My whole area breastfeeds. I still chose not to for all and many of the reasons other posters have given. That doesn't mean I'm a terrible parent. It means I made an educated choice that suited me and my family.

And to compare smoking in pregnancy with formula feeding.... I have no words.

I have a theory that the people who ram BF* propaganda down everyone's throats at every opportunity, even when it is expressly NOT asked for, do so because they need to make other people feel bad, because deep down they feel they have failed in other aspects of parenting. And it makes them feel better to try and bash other people until they feel just as crap.

I suspect that's what is going with Minifingers

• Obviously people do it with things other than BF too, but this is a perfect example.

The trouble with militant breast feeders (who generally end up on threads like this), is their complete refusal to acknowledge why people may not breastfeed. As far as they are concerned we all should have just tried a bit harder, and for someone like me who didn't make any milk, well that must be a myth because it just doesn't happen (it did). It's complete blind ignorance, 'well I managed it, so everyone else should'.

Body parts don't always do what they're meant to do. Formula meant ds1 didn't starve, but for some people that just isn't good enough, or believable, and I'm not quite sure why.

I say this typing one handed whilst bf newborn dS2. Which is going slightly better but I still don't have enough supply to satisfy him.

My HV said to me (when I confessed my worries about not being able to feed for a second time), that it didn't matter that we were topping him up, he was still getting some of my breast milk. And if it meant that a bottle at night meant he slept for a couple of hours instead of continually feeding, then that was ok. And it was a reassuring thing to hear.

Bakerstreet I think that's unfair and and unkind thing to day.
All minifingers has done is to talk about the positives of bf and the cultural issues as she sees them.
She hasnt, as far as i am aware, "rammed bf propaganda down people's throats". I see that she is enthusiastic and even evangelical about bf but i don't think its fair to say shes been judgemental.
I know that its a sensitive issue.
And i agree with others that there are many decisions we make as parents that we might agree a not always perfect.
Anyway, doing as promised and have hidden the thread, so that should compensate some of you from a lack of "hide poster" option.

Thereal it's not that at all, It's the way in which mini fingers has come across. Comparing formula to smoking and drinking, blanket one size fits all view without even considering the grey bits in between. I was lucky with ds 2 I had a fantastic breast pump recommended on here and expressed fir ds and topped up with formula for 9 months, dd my first, I fed fir 2 weeks, she was loosing so much weight, and an Autistic baby who just would not breastfeed.

I don't really see how comparing ff to smoking during pregnancy can be anything other than "ramming it down people's throats" to be fair.

It's hardly a sensitive reply.

I didn't compare ff to smoking.

Infant feeding is a public health issue for both mothers and babies as well as a being a lifestyle choice for parents.

I just object to the insistence that it is nothing BUT a lifestyle choice and the dogged determination to ignore the evidence on the known risks and drawbacks of ff to the health of babies and women.

We would never apply the reasoning that 'if you can't see it it's not there' to any other health issue, so why do we do it with infant feeding?

I think people want posters like me to be unsympathetic and fascistic about breastfeeding - want us to insist against all the evidence that all women can and should breastfeed. But I don't believe that and I'm not saying it. Sorry to throw a spanner in the works of your argument.

I'm saying that as a society something very major and unprecedented has happened to the way we feed babies, that it's happen very very fast (in terms of human history), with no planning, precious little consistent, large scale, good quality research to support its long term safety, it's been driven by commercial interests and by the lifestyle choices of adults and it hasn't had promoting the well-being of babies as its primary focus.

I'm saddened by how complacent adult women are about this issue, how quick to rubbish the evidence or overlook the research by scientists and organisations who have no vested financial interest in increasing rates of breastfeeding, and how eager to swallow whole assurances from formula manufacturers whose claims for the efficacy and safety of their products rest on far less and far shoddier evidence than that of the medical establishment promoting breastfeeding.

And to point out to me what seems blindingly obvious, but seems to have passed other people by - believing that breastfeeding is very important to babies doesn't necessitate a failure to acknowledge that some women find it physically or emotionally unsupportable.

It's not an either/or situation.

Life is complex like that.

And sometimes there are conflicts, what we feel is necessary and best for us may be something that is not what we would want for our baby and we have to compromise.

I don't understand why adult women find it necessary to try to censor other people, or rubbish and ignore anything which draws attention to the fact that often there is a conflict of interest in our parenting choices. We should be grown up enough to look at these things in the clear light of day and own our choices for what they are.

But why do you care what other people are feeding their children?

As long as they are being fed and are not being neglected, then -not even armed with Worra's can of pledge and packet of laxatives - could I bring myself to give the tiniest of fucks how another mother chooses to feed her child.

Largely because it has absolutely nothing to do with me and has absolutely no impact on me or my child.

Also - I didn't consider using formula to top up breast milk a "compromise"

I considered it a marvelous idea. And I still do.

Exactly mini.

I completely understand why in the face of difficulties (in circumstances where the baby's health isnt at risk) some women switch to formula for their own sanity because they believe it's the best decision for their baby : happy mom equals happy baby etc.

Whereas others put up with the crap factors because after weighing up the pros and cons of switching to FF they believe that breast milk is what's best for the baby.

People just make their own choices and have differing priorities in their individual situation.

minifingers, my decision was nothing but a lifestyle choice. I suspect I'm not alone in that.

One of the alleged benefits of BF (not that it's the topic of the OP at all) is allegedly the reduction in breast cancers in women who breastfeed.

Until the research can prove that the formula feeding women who've had cancer wouldn't have contracted the disease had they breastfed I'll remain sceptical.

The fact remains that formula feeding offers a long list of positives. Some people are a bit po-faced about that because while the baby isn't put at any significant disadvantage the positives are often more of benefit to the the mother and some people are insistent that this is wrong!

Some people seem to enjoy a bit of martyrdom.

And some people would rather make their own lives more difficult/unpleasant/tiring/painful/restricted by not opting for the relatively negligible and/or perceived benefits of BF. For some of us it really is that simple.

not even armed with Worra's can of pledge and packet of laxatives-could I bring myself to give the tiniest of fucks how another mother chooses to feed her child.

No, no that's a mixed metaphor. I'm sure you mean you couldn't give a shiny shite

Writer... Surely you can understand that people have different limits to what they can tolerate and life circumstances also impact on those?

Just because one woman continues through thick and thin to breastfeed doesn't mean that everyone should or could.

That's a bit like saying it's baffling how some people suffer severe depression when faced with a loss of a job / bereavement or relationship breakdown whilst others just shrug it off and continue.

People have different lives, different experiences and different tolerance levels. It doesn't mean they are wrong for choosing a different route regardless of reason.

Huh! I meant that "And some people would rather make their own lives LESS difficult/unpleasant/tiring/painful/restricted", not "more" so!

Apologies writer I have just re read your post. Please ignore my ranting. I misread.

But women know that mini well most do and they formula feed their babies they dont need better education they dont need to know why there has been a cultural shift personally I dont think there has been, a mother does not need informed she must do better try harder read the research how a mum feeds her baby is her choice and bussiness. Mothers are not failures or letting their children down because they dont breast feed