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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To hate, loathe and detest when mothers

227 replies

Norklessnora · 21/08/2014 21:36

Call themselves a 'full time mum'. You are either a stay at home mum, or a working mum. All are full time parents and all work bloody hard. Hate it.

OP posts:
LoafersOrLouboutins · 21/08/2014 23:29

Suggesting SAHMs are full time parents implies that working mothers are part time parents, like work is a 'switch off' from being a mother. I think SAHM or working mother are much fairer. All mothers are full time parents.

Mrsjayy · 21/08/2014 23:30

Some twat once described me a lady of leisure because I dont earn money they were told to fuck off mind you

HaroldLloyd · 21/08/2014 23:30

It doesn't imply that at all. It's just what someone calls themselves when someone says "what do you do"

winkywinkola · 21/08/2014 23:31

Well I would never consider any parent part time. Working out of the home or not.

Parenthood is all consuming.

I think most parents get that. I really do.

winkywinkola · 21/08/2014 23:32

And actually why should any parent give a flying fig what others think?

Boysclothes · 21/08/2014 23:36

What's the grunt work called then? The arse wiping, lunch making, book reading stuff that people outsource when they are working full time? In my mind, that's the parenting bit. The motherhood bit, being a mum, is full time for all mums no matter what they're doing in the day. That's how I'd drawn a distinction, and to reiterate I'm not judging anyone cos I don't really care what anyone else is doing, but how do you discuss the difference?

Mintyy · 21/08/2014 23:38

Your life sounds tough Loafers! Who looks after your children until you get in at 10pm?

LoafersOrLouboutins · 21/08/2014 23:46

Mintyy It is really hard! It was so much easier when I was with ExDH as he worked night shifts in a hospital so could collect the girls from their preps and look after them until I was home. At the moment they're at an after school club until 6pm (there is one until 8pm for ages 6 and above but my DDs are too young for it) then my godmother collects them and takes them back to my house (my parents live in Devon so can't help out), she prepares their dinner and bathes them etc. I pay her and trust her, she's been a fabulous godmother to me :). On average I get home at 7pmish so can put them to bed but twice a week or so I won't be home until 10pm. My parents are hoping to move to London to help me :).

Estrellita · 21/08/2014 23:48

Hate, loathe and detest? YABU. It's a turn of phrase. Calm down.

I dislike 'Stay at Home Mum" and find it a bit of a mouthful. I'm at home with toddler and taking on freelance work which I do in the evenings and weekends. I'm also a part time student and retraining for a new career. I've got a nice little Etsy sideline.

DD and I don't stay at home that much. We have a small flat so like to get out and about for activities.

This is what works for us right now. I enjoy my time with DD and former salary wouldn't cover nursery, commuting costs, wrap around child care anyway. I look forward to returning to work when DD starts kindergarten and childcare costs go down a bit.

Again, it's just a turn of phrase. I would take it to mean someone who looked after their kids on a full time basis rather than working outside the home and outsourcing childcare. Not as a statement that said person was superior in some way for doing so.

Mintyy · 22/08/2014 00:01

Lucky you to have such loving, caring family around LoL.

LoafersOrLouboutins · 22/08/2014 00:07

Thank you, I really don't know what I'd do without them :).

LondonRocks · 22/08/2014 00:20

YY Mintyy

Linguaphile · 22/08/2014 00:42

YABU. It's a benign phrase. If it's not PC to use FTM for all the physical workand it IS worka woman does at home with her own toddlers and babies during those 8ish 'working' hours in a day, then what can they call it? Surely they're not just full time nannies who just happen to be the mothers of their charges...?

lecherrs · 22/08/2014 00:52

The phrase doesn't annoy me, but I do think it is completely meaningless.

For the phrase to have meaning, then it has to be used to differentiate mothers from other types of mothers.

Usually, the phrase is used to refer to mothers who look after their children 100% of the time. But then, what about mothers whose children who go to preschool or school? They're not with their children 100% of the time, so surely then they cannot be called 'full time mothers'. Yet women who do not work and have preschool / school aged children on Mumsnet still like to use this phrase.

Incidentally, when my DD got her 15 hours free at preschool, I put her in for 3 x 5 hour sessions and I worked at that time. So the time she was at home, I was with her (exactly the same as any other non working mother), now my DDs are at school, I work full time, but am lucky enough to work condensed hours term time only, so essentially I work when they are at school (I teach). So when they're not at school, I'm with them. So does that mean I am a full time mother? As there is nothing that differentiates a mother of a school aged child who does not work from me. But that would make me a "full time mother who also works full time" which is just crazy!

If you're going to use the phrase 'full time mother' then at best it can only be used for children up to preschool age 2/3, because then mothers stop "mothering" (to quote an earlier poster) full time, and they become 'part time' like every one else. Which just goes to show how meaningless this phrase actually is.

The objection to SAHM is often that women do not actually stay at home. Sometimes I wonder whether 'based at home' would be better, because that is where the woman is based during the day, even if she goes elsewhere. Shame it sounds a bit wanky Grin.

DoJo · 22/08/2014 01:52

So, could the collective wisdom of Mumsnet come up with a term to describe 'parents who spend the majority of their waking hours taking care of their children as an equally valid use of their time, but nonetheless effectively instead of being employed elsewhere' in order to avoid offending anyone?

Does such a term exist? Is the phrase I have used above even non-offensive or has it included/excluded some element of parenting or working outside the home that people feel is vital to the way they describe their role in life? Smile

HicDraconis · 22/08/2014 06:04

Toofattorun
I am a person who has made the decision to have children and actually stay at home to bring them up in the best way possible.

Comments like this I hate, loathe and detest. I'm a person who has made a decision to have children and actually go out to work so I'm not relying on the state or someone else's income to be able to afford them. Not suggesting that Toofattorun doesn't have her own private income somewhere but it pisses me off when people imply that because I work full time I'm not bringing my children up in the best way possible. They have a stay at home parent, it just happens to be their father (who works from home, school hours, so is a part time employee and full time parent and probably is really then two people disguised as one).

And why the fuck is it only mothers that have this bloody conundrum? Or is there a male equivalent somewhere thinking that because he goes out to work all day and left his children with his DW he's made a choice not to bring his children up in the best way possible?

TheRealAmandaClarke · 22/08/2014 06:41

Yabu
It is very obviously a term coined to describe being a SAHM. I have kids and i work pt.
Wherever i am i am also a mum, but that is not the same as doing the physical job of parenting "full-time". Someone else acts in loco parentis during my working hours. i have no reason to believe that SAHMs use the term to suggest I cease to be a mother when i am at work.
I have the sort of job that means i often cannot be disturbed, so dh is more likely to be called upon than I if a childcare hiccup were to occur. i still don't think that makes me a PT mum,but that doesn't mean that someone who is a SAHP not a "full time mum"

The reason these phrases/ terms arise is probably because the work of raising children and keeping house is hugely devalued and its effort underestimated so SaHMs feel they have to justify it.
Your OP simply adds to problem imho. Of course we are not "parenting" while we are at work.

TheRealAmandaClarke · 22/08/2014 06:45

In fact, your post just above mine illustrates quite well the derision directed at SAHMs.
Not nice.
If you're not happy with your childcare arrangements/ working commitments, then speak to your Dp.

Purpleflamingos · 22/08/2014 06:58

I use SAHM as I hate it when my husband tells people (proudly, because he's proud his wage allows this) I'm a housewife. I'm a bloody terrible housewife. The housework is never finished, there's a big pile of ironing and every time I sweep crumbs up there's magically more within seconds. After cutting, sticking and painting there's bits all over the dining room! They are just titles like daughter, son, wife, sister, brother, husband...we are still people with our own thoughts and ideas at the end of the day.

wtffgs · 22/08/2014 07:01

Oh good! A SAHM/WOHM bun fight. That's not been done before........oh, wait....... (hides thread)

HicDraconis · 22/08/2014 07:03

TheRealAmandaClarke there is no intended derision towards SAHP in my post (assuming you're referring to mine as the post above yours). There is general pissed-off-ness at the statement that the mother choosing to SAH is choosing to bring her child up in the best way possible when for many many families, it isn't.

Choosing to SAH is the best decision for some people, choosing to WOH is the best decision for others and for most of us it isn't actually a choice as we all have to pay the mortgage/rent and bills.

TheRealAmandaClarke · 22/08/2014 07:16

I agree there are unpleasant comments from each "camp" sometimes. I am hurt and offended if someone suggests their being a sahm is superior than my being a wohm. Its not nice to have someone say that you are doing your children a disservice by working.
But i don't believe the term FT mum does suggest this. I think it just describes their day. And although i am always a mother, even when not being allowed to do sleeping. when i am at work i am working. I am mot actually "parenting"

TheRealAmandaClarke · 22/08/2014 07:17
OwlCapone · 22/08/2014 07:32

Suggesting SAHMs are full time parents implies that working mothers are part time parents, like work is a 'switch off' from being a mother. I think SAHM or working mother are much fairer. All mothers are full time parents.

And suggesting that mothers who go out to paid employment are working mothers implies that SAHMs don't do any work at all. All mothers work.

See how easy it is to take offence at something if you really want to? "Working mother" has the same negative connotations as "full time mother" if you can be arsed to look for them.

Seriously, no one is stupid enough to think that a mother who works outside of the home in paid employment is any less of a mother than one who stays at home, just like no one is stupid enough to think that a SAHM does no work.

I am completely comfortable with my choice and really don't give a damn how people describe themselves. If simple phrases like this make you bristle then it is your problem with how you perceive them.

It's really quite straightforward:
Full time mother = one who is physically doing the mothering stuff all day
Working mother = one who is in paid employment.

Nothing more than that.

Pagwatch · 22/08/2014 07:37

Yes. What OwlCapone said.

If you think that 'full time mother' implies any negativity towards wohm then you should figure out why you are quite so chippy. It's just a shorthand for 'not in paid employment' that doesn't imply you are trying to get work.